SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to the Success Architect, where we don't just build homes, we build legacies. I'm your host, Jake Lewendahl, custom home builder and coach. Each week, I sit down with builders and entrepreneurs who are ready to annex their business, their health, and their mindset. This is where blueprints come breakthrough. Let's get to work. Welcome back to the Six Ads Architect, guys. I'm your host, Jake Lewendahl. We've got episode five. And with me, I've got Paul Peterson here. He is a superintendent for Momentum Customs. And I'm really honored to have him here today because we constantly talk on social media in my life, in this podcast, about how we build culture here, how we care about relationships, how we care about people. And that's what really makes us successful in our industry and just in our life. And here we're called the success architect. That's what we're building. And success means something different to everybody. And what I wanted to do is bring on a couple people who are actually part of the organization because it's not really fair for me to toot my own horn and show my bias and how great it is to be at Momentum Customs and how great our community is as a whole without having some proof. So thank you for being the first one to come on as part of the Momentum Customs team. And first off, thank you for being part of our community. Like I'm honored to have you, honored to have everyone who is part of the team on the team. And uh yeah, this is gonna be really fun. Welcome. Can you introduce yourself just a little bit for starters? Like, what do you love to do? What are your hobbies? Bit about your family, just a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Yeah, for sure. Thanks for this. Thanks for the opportunity to speak to everything you described. I think it'll be a good conversation, cool opportunity. But a little bit about me, as Jake mentioned. I'm a superintendent here at Momentum. Been here just shy of three years now. I think yeah, time flies. And I've been in Montana, which is important to mention because it's a place I've aspired to be my entire life. I've been in Montana for just under four years as well. But I was originally born and raised in Wisconsin. My dad's a builder, so I grew up in the construction industry. Started hanging out on job sites with him legitimately before I can remember. And construction for me growing up was just an ingrained part of my life. It's what dad did, it's the environment that was ever present, and it's become a foundation in my life and kind of a cornerstone in my life moving forward over the years. So I I'm a passionate guy. I love the outdoors. I love to hunt and fish more than anything. And these days I'm really focused on trying to build a balanced life and the construction industry and the role I've gone into here at Momentum is really helping fuel those passions and provide that balanced lifestyle. And we're on a good track. Looking forward to keeping it rolling.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

That's amazing to hear. So, two questions. First off, did you think you were gonna end up in construction, growing up in construction? Because I know I had the same upbringing, I don't know, 12 years old earlier on site cleaning. I told the story a couple episodes ago of collecting Romex so that I could bring it to the recycling plant for cash for God knows what. Did you think you were gonna end up in construction?

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Honestly, if I reflect on it, no, is my answer. Growing up as a young boy and moving forward into college, I was always working construction jobs over summer, winter break, and even post-college, it will probably speak to a few of the different occupations I've held and experiences I've had. But it was always construction to me was always a means to an end. Like growing up as a young guy, my dad, I'm very fortunate, very close to my dad. He's been amazingly supportive my entire life, but he's a hard man and believes in hard work. But when I say a means to an end, I've always loved to hunt as long as I can remember. It was about being with dad. So that meant being on the job site or being in the woods with dad. And I wanted to get into bow hunting when I was around 12 or 13 years old, and he's not great, but you gotta buy a bow. So again, means to an end. It's like, well, yeah, but it's like I gotta work. And he's like, if you work and save the money for a bow, I'll split it with you. So what am I doing? I'm cleaning up job sites, I'm all material around, and I'm finding a way to get the money to buy that bow and carrying that message forward the rest of my life, even in college. It's I need to work if I want to be able to afford a case of beer on the weekends and hang out with my buddies. So I need a job. A bow and beer. Yeah. And construction is what I knew, and place I found I I could excel and bring in some decent income. And even after college, I ended up going out and moving west and working on a ranch in Colorado and became more involved in the outdoor industry. It was taking guys fishing and hunting for a living and different seasonal stints, but that wasn't paying the bills the rest of the year. So I would inevitably wind up linking up with the crews I knew back home and swinging a hammer and making a paycheck to get by. But it was always a get by, it was a means to an end. It wasn't I wasn't super invested in learning the trade or the industry in those days. I suppose that was just a younger man's approach to things. And I've really tried to shift that mindset in the last handful of years, and it's led to some really good things.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

That's awesome. That's awesome. So you said earlier that you have searched for balance in your life, and that you have, at least for your life currently, found that in the role you are right now, which is a superintendent. Traditionally, a superintendent's role is not balance, it's fucking all work. Like being an on-site manager in high-end construction means you're on call 24-7. You have found a way to do that and make it something that you enjoy and you have the balance. Let's just keep that in our minds as we go through these questions because it's very impressive and awesome. And I guess the question for right now is growing up in construction, doing all that stuff, going back home for work to make money. Is there one main thing that construction taught you that you have carried forward into your life now? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

One main thing. A thing. A thing? Sure. I'll fall back on some advice my dad gave me when I was going off to school because I think it speaks to his background in construction and something I've always carried at the front of my mind moving forward. He said timing helps no matter what situation you're in life when you're seeking to be successful, but hard work is always gonna make the difference. That's so true. That's awesome. No matter what what situation, what occupation role I've been in, I recognize that timing may be right or not. You just have to stay the course and look to seize opportunities when the timing presents it. But as long as you are working hard along the way, those good things are gonna come naturally. And I think that is an overarching theme in the construction industry. It's a very hardworking industry. You don't find success in this industry if you aren't a hard worker. I think almost anybody in the industry would agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

100%. Roll up your sleeves and get it done. That's awesome. I love it. All right. So for your life, hunting's a massive part of your life from an early age. It still is. You went into work in the hunting industry. So tell me a little bit about going into work in the hunting industry. And I want to go into the second part of this, which is talking about culture. So give a little background on the companies you worked for in the hunting industry, how you came about being there, and why are you not still in those companies? Why are you here today? There's a lot to Yeah, that's I know there's a lot to unpack, and that's it's a big question that leads to the culture piece of this discussion. So take your time in answering that because I know that's a lot all in one.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Yeah, try and unpack it and explain the journey, which is it's been years at this point to reflect on. But as I mentioned, I did not envision myself in a professional role in the construction industry. It was a means to an end, it was a get by, it was a default, it was something I was always exposed to, ever present. And for whatever reason, I at a young age developed this insane, call it a passion, call it an obsession for hunting in the outdoors. What would your wife call it? Probably both of those things, I'd imagine. Excellent. Bearing that in mind, as a young guy, I grew up in a family. I was always told I should go to college. That was what you do to start your adult life off on the right foot. And I, as I mentioned, grew up in Wisconsin and have family out west that had Dawn School here in Bozeman at Montana State, with a cousin at Colorado State. So in my mind, I was seeing those guys, I was emulating those guys because they were super in hunting, fishing in the outdoors, and they were living out west, and they were in school, but they were getting to do all these amazing things.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

I grew up sitting in a tree stand, chasing whitetails and running around in the Mississippi River shooting ducks. And these guys are out in the mountains hunting elk and they're floating rivers and rowing rivers and doing these next level adventurous things that I aspired to do. So I don't want to get too long-winded here, but as I was thinking about going to school, I was thinking about coming west. Which my lizard brain at the time didn't recognize. If I would have just moved out here, became a resident, I could have just paid in state tuition. No, it's any young person that's listening to this. If you want something, there's usually a way around it. But I'm staying staying in Wisconsin for school. I didn't have a lot of direction in school. I wasn't, I didn't have a career path in mind. I didn't have a degree that was gonna launch me into this in a into a particular field that I was super interested in. So honestly, I was kind of lost at that time. I was having a great time. I was having a wonderful time. Yep. Fun town, good friends, still getting hunting fish in Wisconsin. It was cool, but I just always felt like there was something more out there. And having seen my cousins out west and family out west, I just always felt this drive to go experience that. Throughout school, me and my buddies would just start coming out for spring break or winter break. We'd do a ski trip or a fishing trip. And then I was lucky enough to come out in Elkhunt with my dad on a couple occasions, and I just kind of continued to build this desire to be out west. And as I was coming up on finishing school, I remember having a conversation with my cousin Joe, who's a big figure in my life. He's a builder here in Bozeman as well. And he's Man, if you're trying to figure it out, he's I think you need to either decide what you want to do and go wherever you have to go to do that thing, or you need to figure out where you want to be and do whatever you have to do to be in that place. That's great advice.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

So that is again a piece of advice that's always stuck with me, and that got me thinking, okay, if I want to be out west, I just gotta find a way. And around that time, one of my best friends were finishing up school. He's like, Hey, we should move out west for the summer. I'm like, okay, what are we gonna do? And we both had construction backgrounds for like we can probably get like a ranch job, doing fencing or any odd jobs. So we started calling around and we both ended up getting hired on a ranch in Colorado as ranch hands for the summer, just helping out around the ranch. And that single moment, living out there for the summer, there was a point in time where I woke up one day and I was happier than I ever knew I could be. That's amazing. Yeah, it's a difficult thing to articulate, but I'd I was apprehensive to go do it to an extent. I was comfortable where I grew up. I was working on a masonry crew in the summer, making good money. Yep. Had a cool old boat, suburban. I could pack a bunch of people in, was playing amateur baseball, like making a steady paycheck. I'm like, this is a good life, and to give that all up and go to a place I'd never spent any significant time living, work with a bunch of people I'd never met was a very, quite frankly, a non-traditional thing for a guy from the Midwest to do. Yeah. It opened my eyes to a different way of living, different cultures, different customs, different values that people have from throughout the country. And it really was my most formative experience in making me ultimately decide, no, I know I want to be out west. So I need to find a way to do whatever I have to do to be out west. Absolutely. And that's where trying to unpack it, my passion for hunting and ultimately coming back into the construction industry start to take an interesting route. I'm chasing this passion in hunting at this point and fishing. I've gotten this amazing exposure working on the ranch, and I just dug into it hook, line, and sinker, so I ended up getting a chance to guide fishermen. From that, I ended up getting a chance to guide hunters, and those were seasonal jobs, and I'm trying to paint broadly here over about a five-year period where I would go out west, work a seasonal gig as a guide, and then I'd have some money in my pocket, but it's not enough to make it work year-round. So I'd go back to Wisconsin and I'd swing a hammer. Okay, got it. At that point, I got on the framing crew and were mostly framing, but doing trim, all manner of odd jobs till the spring, have some more money in my pocket, go travel, go back to the ranch, start a seasonal cycle again. And every year it just got a little better. Like I got a little more involved in the outdoor industry. I got a little better opportunity. And eventually, after having done some seasons as a fishing guide, first in as a hunting guide, I started thinking, oh, maybe I should look for a full-time gig in the outdoor industry if I could find it. 100%. Ultimately got hired at a company based in Idaho. I checked all the boxes. The place is located in Sun Valley, Idaho. Amazing access to hunting and fishing opportunities, skiing, mountain biking. Just beautiful area. Yeah. Insane. Yeah. Yeah. I've gone now from doing this seasonal work to a full-time gig, full-fledged in the outdoor industry. Yep. And I went there. It was an amazing experience. Again, met people from all over the country, got exposed to amazing people in the outdoor industry and beyond, had some phenomenal experiences. But ultimately, that company underwent a lot of changes. I learned firsthand that mixing my personal passion with my profession could create a lot of conflict. Gotcha. Yeah. There's a whole we could do a whole podcast on that.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

But ultimately, it led to me leaving because I wasn't happy anymore. Yeah. Even though I was so immersed in this industry that I am insanely passionate about, I found that I I wasn't truly happy working in that environment. Got it. And got it. We can probably speak to the culture surrounding that and what led me to leave. But it was a challenging time because I went from attaining this position, which in a lot of people's minds, if you're passionate about hunting, is the dream to work in the industry. Yeah. As a young guy, people in the industry or in hunting media are like, wow, how do I get to that point? And I had done it and it wasn't what I thought it was.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

I mean, because theoretically it gives you access, gives you discounts on stuff. It gives you access to the people, to the right places to go do your passion even more.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

For sure. But at the end of the day, it is a job and we all have to make a living. And if things get out of balance, when you're mixing, I found your passion with your profession, or if a decision is made at in the workplace that you don't agree with when you're so passionate about the industry, it can create a lot of conflict.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

Okay, got it. As that company grew and changed and evolved, I exceedingly saw areas of conflict that I didn't agree with, things that didn't resonate with me. Yep. And my passion and my personal outlook on hunting. Yep. And that's fine. Everybody has their own approach to it, but it just it was no longer the right place for me. Gotcha. I had to make a change. Yep. And that's when I decided to get back into construction full time. And again, it's here I am. It's all construction, it's the default. It's the fallback.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Yeah, it's always the fallback.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

Sure. We're now at this point, I'm pushing 30 years old. Frontal lobes probably developed a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

That's a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

I've been running around living this nomadic lifestyle, doing all sorts of different things. And I just recognize that if I if I really want to meet my goals one day, I need to take a more determined and calculated approach to how I want to achieve them. I need to, I'm going to get into construction. I can't just do it for a paycheck. I need to try and learn. I need to try and see if there's a path forward here. I need to take matters into my own hands and start constructing my own future and investing in myself on the job and not just looking at it as a paycheck. And I believe that's what led me to you guys. And really had a big hand in where we are today and why we're talking about these things.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Okay. This is cool. Okay. So taking a break from culture for a second, you talked a lot about balance in that and how you stepped into your passion and you mixed work and play, and it ended up in an imbalance. And then going into construction, though it was a fallback, you're now talking about like you are making it part of your life and committing to that as part of your career, and also finding the balance within that career to go then to your passions, which are now a little different than your work. The word I use for that is integration personally. I don't know if that resonates with you, but tell me a little bit more about like the difference between working and playing in the same industry or and then switching to working in a different industry, playing in a different industry, how those two integrate, and how you made the transition. I don't know if there was like one moment that you realized it or how you decided to make that transition to fully integrate, not only to commit to construction in your current life right now, as your career path, and how you integrate your hobbies and work together to find the right balance that you stayed in.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:27

I think a big part of answering that is reflecting on what my personal goals were and are at these different stages in life. So as a younger guy, getting a chance to work in the hunting industry, my goal was to have new experiences in hunting and to just further my hunting career and depth of experience across all aspects of hunting. My goal wasn't necessarily to save money to support a future family or to build up a retirement account. At the end of the day, I'm a very experienced oriented person, more than a monetary-oriented person. So for me at that time, it's as long as I get to be in the field 100 days a year, life's good. Like I can eat pizza and ramen, and I don't need much as long as I'm outside. Yep. But as I started to mature, grow, think about the future a bit, it's okay. What do I really want in life? Do I want to be in a position to buy a home one day? Do I want to be in a position to support a family one day? Here I am working in this industry that isn't very lucrative. It's like, does this pencil out? Am I gonna be able to get ahead? Am I gonna be able to afford these my own experiences someday that I'm not just doing on account of company I'm working at? Like, how do I take ownership of my life and my path forward versus just participating? In this organization and reaping the benefits of that.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

So as I had moved away from it, it was like, okay, what am I going to do? And I was listening to I forget who it was, listening to a podcast the other day.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

It might have been Elon Musk on Rogan talking about it.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

Or I could be totally off there, but whoever it was, they were talking about, if you're looking at your goals, are you playing the right game? He was using an analogy. He's if you know you need to, let's say you want to buy a house, you need to save X amount of dollars to get there. If you're working in an industry where you're investing all your time, all your energy, but you're only acquiring X value out of the business, it'd be like if you're playing soccer where you're working super hard, but how many points can you score? Maybe a few hat trick if you're lucky. Yeah. Three. That's a big deal. So if you're playing basketball, maybe you could score 50 in a game. So it's a bit of a funny analogy, but are you in the right game that caters to your goals? Are you in an industry where you can actually score more points with your time and energy that you put forth into it? And I recognized for me at that time that the hunting industry wasn't providing that. Yep. And I recognized I was struggling with it because again, it's the dream, right? To so many people, but I'm not happy. This isn't penciling out where do we go from here? And one of my best friends, I was talking to him about it, and he'd gone through a similar experience. And the gal at the company he was at the time was trying to keep him around when he was contemplating leaving. And she's look, man, you just got to think about another person's job at this organization you would like, or a role you could create at this organization that you would want. And he told me, He's oh yeah, that doesn't exist here, so I'm out. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Thanks for the clarity. Yeah, thank you. That's yeah, and he told clarity right there.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

So I thought about it. I'm like, okay, like what's the path forward here? Is there a role at this company I want? Is there a role I could define for myself and carve out? And the answer was no.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:57

It's time to leave, it's time to do something different and reevaluate and pick a new game to participate in and boom, back into construction. Got it. That answers the question. I think so.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Yeah, it does. And okay, so I'm cheating because I know you, but you are on a path, you're newly married, you're on a path, like you said, like having a retirement account, like all these life things that come up that you have embraced as your responsibility, and some people don't. So you're telling us you've embraced this responsibility, but you're also very passionate about your life, your hobbies, your time, and your balance or integration. So, how does company culture play into that whole scenario where you have these checklists of things that you have to build for your life, but you also have this checklist in your mind of the experiences that you want to have and the experience that you want to have in life as a whole? So, how does culture play into that in the company you work in, whether it was here or anywhere?

SPEAKER_03 25:06

I should say when I decided to get back into construction, I did not sacrifice that passion for hunting my segue back into the construction industry. Looked like me taking a full-time framing gig here in Bullsman. And quite frankly, when I met with the guy I was gonna work with, I told him, like, I like to hunt a lot, man. What's the schedule like here? Yeah, what are we doing? Try to go hard when the weather's nice, it usually slows down in the fall in the winter time. So take all the time you need. I'm like, rock on. Yeah, let's go. So I like knew I was still gonna get my time, but I also took on that new approach of I need to try and learn here and I need to try and grow here and build a good name and have a good reputation. And I did that for a year, and then I got connected with you guys. Yep, and I remember our first meeting. Same. So great. Yeah. Job interview that I didn't know was a job interview.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Yeah, that was Pete, a good friend of all of ours who works here too, and set up a job interview, but didn't really tell him what it was for. I think correct me if I'm wrong, but you thought you were coming to interview to frame a house or something.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

Yeah, I'd rather hang some doors about odd jobs.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Yeah, and we were hiring for a full-time superintendent position, and he didn't even know it. He decided to stick around for the interview and we just did it right there on the spot. It was awesome. But I remember in that conversation, that's who are you?

SPEAKER_03 26:31

What are you into? Filling each other out. And I remember then too. I was like, this is what I love to do. And even then, I remember you saying, Well, yeah, we're all about that, we're all about supporting your personal life here, and we just expect that if you do your job, do it well, get your stuff done, you manage your time, go do what you need to do and want to do. Yep. And that's stuck out to me immensely because taking that leap from having grown up in the construction industry, done a bunch of different jobs in the industry, just a year fresh into taking it more seriously, moving from a guy on a framing crew to a superintendent was a big leap mentally. Yeah, yeah, it seemed like a big challenge in my mind, but I'm not one to shy away from a challenge. I just thought, okay, if these guys seem like they have a great culture at this company and that we have shared values, and if I can just put my head down and try to learn and try to do things the right way, they're gonna respect my passions and allow me to continue to to live the dream, to to build this life in Montana out west, in this place I want to be, that I've decided I want to be, and they're gonna I'm gonna be able to use this as a vehicle to get to where I need to go and want to go. 100%. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

All right. So we're talking on where we've said the word culture quite a few times. Culture is a huge buzzword in the business world, in in the world for everybody, because everyone wants that integration or balance. So we've talked about it some, but what does culture in a company mean to you? Does it mean to me?

SPEAKER_02 28:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

To me, culture are it'd be the shared values, customs, and behaviors of an organization.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Beautiful, beautiful. And what makes those things good to you? I what makes you stick around? Because I know you wouldn't stick around if the culture wasn't right. Yeah, it's a nuanced thing, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:35

It is a buzzword, everybody talks about it, but what is it to everyone individually to an organization? I think it's important that for anyone that is part of a team or an organization that they align with the culture, with those shared customs, values, behaviors. Obviously, every individual that's part of said team or organization is going to bring some individuality to that organization. But as long as everybody is aware of what those shared values, customs, and behaviors are and they align with them, I think that puts everybody on a great footing to succeed.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Awesome. I think you just answered a question I've been wondering for quite a long time. But so my question is, and I think what most of the listeners are gonna want to know is if there's an entrepreneur listening who wants to scale their company and grow, how does a company grow and maintain culture? You just talked, and I'll help I want you to answer it how you want. What spurred the question for me is you talked about values and alignment. So that that's very cool. But yeah, how does a company grow and grow quickly? Let's say a company wants to triple size in a year, and that's gonna make them at least double their people's team, their people team. Like, how do you maintain the culture when you're growing that fast?

SPEAKER_03 30:08

I mean, I can only speak to it from my experiences, my current perspective. I've never built my own business. Yeah. I've never overseen, I've never been at the helm of said growth.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

I've lived through it, I've been a part of it. I want your opinion from inside of it. That's this is largely why you're here today and why I ask you the question, because I think you're very cognizant and aware of it, and I want to know your opinions from within it.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

I think I have been fortunate to experience growth and change myself, and I've also been fortunate to speak with a lot of friends and acquaintances, acquaintances who have gone through it as well. Everything from employees to founders who have sold. And in my experience, I'd just speak to my experience in a company that was acquired and grew and changed. To start with, when I got to that company, we were really small, it was about a dozen people. The original founders were still there. The culture was extremely tight-knit, very familial, work hard, play hard atmosphere. Everybody helped each other out, everybody wore a lot of hats.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

It was a dynamic workplace. And the company sold after a couple of years. And when that happened, a good way I used to explain what we were doing there is that and again, this is my personal experience.

SPEAKER_03 31:38

When it was small, we had that tight-knit, smaller team, and we're trying to succeed moving forward. The approach is more we're selling hunting apparel, the approach is more like what do we think is cool? What can we build? And then how do we sell it?

SPEAKER_00 31:54

It was very product first and purpose driven. And you guys had a lot of input on yes.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

Once it sold, it became a numbers game. It was not so much what do we think is cool and how do we sell it? It was like how much of X or Y do we need to sell by said date? Got it. It was a big shift in our messaging and our approach because ultimately the buyers are trying to scale the business. Yep. And I think that can take away from the authenticity of the organization in a great way. And for me, that wasn't a good environment. I think it's a great opportunity for a lot of people. I think it probably provides a better financial upside and maybe a bit more stability in certain cases for the right person. But for me, being as passionate about hunting as I was for hunting to be monetized in that way for me, it was a big pain point. Got it.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

So correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm hearing is product and people first.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

I think that's essential to any organization.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

In my experience, I can drone on about other organizations I've seen go through acquisition where their internal culture has suffered when things have shifted away from an authentic people product first approach to a numbers first approach.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Got it. So keeping like the uh keeping the basis and the authenticity of the company. So we're in construction. We care deeply about culture, but what does that really mean? It means our people having balance and integration in their life because in construction, a lot of people don't. We have a lot of competitors who are much larger than us, but do very similar projects. And if you talk to their employees, I'm guessing many of them don't have that. Maybe some do, and that's great, but I don't see it very often. If I'm hearing you, it's when the people, whether it's the founder or the people on the team within the organization, no matter how much growth there is, continue to focus on the passionate piece of being there, which is the product and the people. So the product, doing the best product, best quality, best craftsmanship, on time, on budget, if we're talking about construction. And then also focusing on the relationships that we have and that we deal with every single day. If that's at the forefront, then it can still be possible to grow massively as long as that mindset's achieved.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Yeah, it's there's parallels across the industries. But I think in construction, more than the apparel business, if you're talking about a construction business that's trying to grow, I think it would be easy to maybe uh make the wrong hire. Yeah. To just put a person in a seat and then to manage that person in a way that nets out more money on a project at the end of the day, but it's almost easier in this industry to not give that person autonomy, to empower that person, and to just put them on a job because you can burn them out in a year, and the guys at the top can still cash out at the end of the job. Yeah. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Totally. Nationally, I know so many PMs from groups that I'm a part of nationally, who they usually work in a company for about three years max, and then they move on to the next one. And a lot of these are like big commercial companies, and and they move on to the next one just thinking it's gonna be different, and then it's not, and they get burned out again, and it's just this constant cycle. I notice it largely with project managers because it's a very difficult thing. And I say project managers, I think PM and super can be synonymous in this in this conversation, but it's way too easy to burn people out by not actually caring about the people and stepping aside from caring about the product and the people and just looking at the numbers, which means move fast, do it for cheap, because our numbers require it.

SPEAKER_03 36:22

Okay, I like that. I think that's a good talking point, and that can help me draw a little bit more of a parallel from working in the hunting industry to here after the acquisition. It did feel like management wasn't looking out for the people below them to the same degree they were before. We shifted away from that familial environment to a numbers-based environment, and management didn't emphasize the well-being of their people as much as I felt they could have. Got it. And in construction, it's the same thing. You could have a small team to start, be very familial. Management can be very supportive and conscientious of the people underneath them, but as you grow, that's where I see just the same as any industry, it being more difficult to look out for those people to do right by them, to empower them, to give them the autonomy they need. That's where I see a challenge in growth.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

It's amazing. I like it. Okay. Yeah, and I think as a founder and owner, like I think for other entrepreneurs, the thing to consider is that though it's a long-term play, when you focus on the product and the people, that does not have to take away from your bottom line. It might feel like it's going to in the short term, but I'm very curious over the long term. I don't have a specific case study to show this. But from all the books, all the conversations I've ever had, it seems like long term, when you focus on the product and the people, it actually can raise your margins, even though it feels like it's not going to in the short term. So I I agree.

SPEAKER_03 38:11

Yes, efficient people. Yep. And ultimately that drives your bottom line. If people are happier, more productive, more efficient, you're going to experience more success on the job, whatever the job is.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Yeah. And you can go into all kinds of figures like attrition and rehiring and retraining people and how much that costs. And that alone might be one of the main factors in keeping your margins high while treating your people like real people. And no matter how big you get, making it a family. So that's awesome. That's a huge challenge. And it takes work and it takes time out of an owner's day. It takes time out of the day for everyone to treat people like people because there's work to be done, but there's also relationships to be upheld.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

I think it's difficult too. I feel like humans operate better in small teams for the most part.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

Yeah, we talked about this a bit. Yeah. Talk for two minutes on that, if you would, just to wrap this all up. I like this concept.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

I just personally have found that I really enjoy being a part of a smaller team where there may be more required of you. You may be required to wear multiple hats. But as long as the culture of that small team is intact, that you have the same shared values, customs, behaviors, and you're all working towards a common goal, you can accomplish a lot. I feel like once you get outside of about a dozen people, for whatever reason, humans tend to experience more conflict. That culture tends to be threatened, and it just becomes a bigger management challenge to keep the ship sailing in the same direction once you get outside that roughly dozen or so like-minded people.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

And you and I talked about that here, I think two, three months ago. And I've been thinking on that concept and thinking about okay, how do we then divide the team up into teams? So each team or division is more productive. And you find the right people to work with the right people in their small team, but then also find ways to bring the overall team together so there's cohesiveness between everybody. And I don't we have not surpassed that point yet. At the moment, I think we have 11 or 12 people on the team. So we're getting very close to that point. And next year we will surpass that. So it's been high on my list to figure out how do we properly divide people up into the right teams while keeping the team as a whole, as a family. So we're gonna see how that goes. Aligned with the same culture, aligned with the same culture and making sure that the overall umbrella is 100% aligned and each team is just more having separate teams doesn't change culture, they're just more efficient as separate teams.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

But it can be more difficult to maintain that culture across the separate teams and have them develop a bit of their own culture as well. But how do you make sure that subculture aligns with the primary culture?

SPEAKER_00 41:21

That's why I'm gonna have you back on the podcast in a year, so we'll discuss that.

SPEAKER_03 41:26

I think it's doable. I just don't think a lot of people talk about it. I think having seen been a part of an acquisition, a quick change where I didn't feel culture was prioritized and seeing other organizations go through the same thing. It seems to me if there was a bit more emphasis put on maintaining that it would lead to better long-term success and happiness for the people associated with those groups.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Awareness goes a long way, is what I can say about that. So no, that's amazing. For anyone listening, I suppose that's the thing to take away, is just being aware of that at the beginning goes a long way toward having a solution for it.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

So I think a lot of owners and managers and stuff are just not aware of it in general. Yeah, it's it does I think it does start from the top. I think a hundred percent. I think if the owner, founder, leader is authentically showcasing the culture and living the culture even as the team grows, if that can be passed down to the leader of a subgroup or a new team within the greater team, you can, I believe, maintain that shared direction and shared culture and do something pretty cool with it.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

Amazing. I'm excited to talk about this again. It's gonna be great. Awesome. Before we wrap up, we call this podcast the suc the success architect. Sometimes I struggle with that. So I want to end with this throwing at you. What does success mean to you, Paul?

SPEAKER_03 43:09

I think it's evolved over time. I think I spoke to that a bit earlier about how my goals and priorities have shifted a bit. But for me, I've always maintained my passion in hunting while seeking to find balance professionally to still be able to participate in my passions. My passions have led me to quite frankly all the great things in my life. I've met my best friends through hunting, I've gotten connected to you, to everybody professionally, because I had known somebody through hunting that recommended me for a job. I met my wife through my best hunting buddy. For me, maintaining that passion and not losing sight, prioritizing it has led to all these great things in life. So, what does success mean? Now it means staying true to that passion, but life's changed. I'm got a family now. We're trying to push forward. So I think success to me is making sure I'm covering my bases, the bills are paid, the home fronts are not in jeopardy. I'm making I I'm balancing the checkbook at the end of the day, but I'm still I still have the autonomy and the time to do the things I'm passionate about.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

I think success to me is more about driving the personal freedom and time to do as I see fit as it is earning a certain dollar amount for sure.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Amazing. Great answer. Great answer. Thank you so much for taking the time to come today and speak with us. And I see another chat in our future about this culture piece and our company growing and how we can all maintain that. I I expect it's gonna be a journey and something that we all have to be very aware of and uh very specific about maintaining. So I think it's gonna be really fun and we'll talk about it again. I agree. It'll be a good ride. It's got a good thing going, man. Love it. Thanks for being here. Appreciate you. Came in. Thank you. You bet. Thanks for tuning in to the Success Architect. If today's episode helped you lay a stronger foundation for your business or your life, subscribe and share it with someone ready to do the same with theirs. You can follow me, Jake Lewendahl, on social for daily tips on health, wealth, and building success that lasts. Until next time, keep designing, keep building, and keep leveling up.