Welcome to the Success Architect, where we don't just build homes, we build legacies. I'm your host, Jake Lewendal, custom home builder and coach. Each week, I sit down with builders and entrepreneurs who are ready to 10x their business, their health, and their mindset. This is where blueprints become breakthroughs. Let's get to work. What's up, what's up, guys? Welcome to The Success Architect. We've got a really fun episode today because we have a guest who's near and dear to my heart. His name is Pete. And I'm really excited to bring him on because on The Success Architect, we talk a lot about success in all divisions of life, spirituality, fitness, body, family and relationships, as well as wealth and business. And Pete is really good on a lot of these divisions. So I'd say all of them, arguably, and it's really cool to see that. So I'm really excited to have him here. He's also got a really fun story, specifically in the construction realm, which is very fitting. And so we're here. Welcome, Pete. Thank you for joining. And yeah, super excited to have you. To start, like I said, success in all divisions. One place that you are really good about making sure that there is time is family and recreation. And you do a really good job of putting those two together. So like with that theme, can you just introduce yourself a little bit? You can talk about your work too, but we're going to talk about that a ton. So Maybe give us a little background on Yeah. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Fallon and I got married. My wife, we got married in 2014, kind of our relationship. It started off with literally just recreating together, playing, snowmobiling, hunting together. So it's like, that's, I don't know. I hate to say it's the backbone, but it obviously it's deeper than just being friends and playing. But we've carried that in through our marriage and doing that with our girls as well. Obviously it's like take them That's one thing that's been so impressive to me. Like Makenzie and I constantly use you guys as like an example of, okay, we want to go have fun. Just bring the kids. Pete and Fallon do it. I think we can figure it out. They make it look super easy. Turns No, it's not. No, trust me. There have been times where it's like, Oh, this is hard and it sucks. And it's like, if you can start them young, it's like, kids are like concrete, you know, it's like you have a little bit of time to like work with them and then it sets up and it's kind of baked. That's awesome. I don't know. I love the metaphor. That's fantastic. Yeah. And the whole, you know, having kids has been a growing process for me. It's like, first it was like, this is hard. And this is not near as fun as just being able to do whatever I want. But now it's like, you know, when you, when you lean into the challenge and whatnot really does bring out the best in you and you see how important they So yeah, it's great. It's, it's, yeah, they mean the world to me. That's awesome. That's awesome. It's fun to see them grow up and teach them things and Yeah. That's very cool. Well, thank you for being such a good example for everybody on like how to involve your kids in your recreation and just not stop living your life. Just press forward and the kids come along and it's so great. So thank you. Very cool to see. Very cool to see. Sweet, man. So regarding work, I mean, so Pete's been with me at Momentum Customs since the beginning. I guess, six months after the company started, Pete came to me and we, uh, we started working together. And so he's been here since the beginning, which is amazing. And he's a huge reason Momentum runs the way it runs and why our quality, like everything in the field is so well done because Pete looks at it just like we've always talked about with care and, and like, it's, it's your home that you're building. And I mean, if something isn't done right, it's getting redone because your eyes are on it and it's got to be perfect, which is amazing. So I'm thankful for that. And it's, it's just a, it's a fantastic lesson in, in having someone who cares on the team. And that goes into a lot of what we're talking about today with leadership is that's a large reason why everyone on our team cares so much is because of Pete's leadership. So let's start with, go back, I don't know, 10 years or more than 10 years. Give us a quick rundown of you coming out of school, starting in the trades. What exactly did you do? Where, where did you start like on a framing crew? How and when did you make the transition to running your own crew? and then transition to management. Give a quick couple minute rundown of that scenario and Absolutely. So I moved here in 2005. I was 18. I didn't know anyone. I wanted to, I grew up in Big Fork, wanted to get away from just the comforts of friends and whatnot. I knew that I needed to leave or else I would just get sucked into hang out with everything that's familiar and whatnot. So I moved here, I'd done construction up there, anything from framing and roofing, basically being a glorified laborer. Moved here, got on a big framing crew. He only did projects in the club and he's doing stuff for SPC OSM. It rocked my world because it was, I was like, this is insane. I had never been around like that level of construction guys. So they smoked weed the whole way up. Then they would swing into the Conoco and each get a six pack. And I was like, I was running like good old boys, like just, they worked hard. Maybe they'd have a beer on the weekend, but it was just a very different atmosphere. And it, I was just like, this is insane. These guys are so retarded. Yeah. And what size houses were you doing? Oh, they're huge. And You know, anything from probably 8,000 to 15,000 square foot houses. Massive custom homes. And I had enough skills to look at a, what I'd been around was a 15 page. set. I remember walking to the trailer and I told the guy that I was working for at the time, he was like, Hey, can you like read plans and know how to understand wall assemblies and like frame walls? And I was like, yeah. And I did when it came to those level of home. I'll never forget. He walked walked me into the job trailer. It was like one of those big semi trailers or whatever. Yeah. And plants, that's probably three And I was like, hey, I'll be honest. I don't know. Yeah, that's not what I thought you meant. I remember thinking in my head. This is like a different language. I didn't know anything, but he could tell the sound. I'm not trying to sound pompous, but I wasn't coming to work hung over every day. I just was in survival mode of, I was blown away that I could make, I think I was making 25 bucks an hour. And that was like insane in 2005. I was like, I just won the lottery. And obviously I wasn't a lead guy, but I also was showing up every day. So he latched onto me. I didn't really learn much from him because he was too busy just trying to keep all his other guys cranking. But I quickly realized, okay, if I don't live like all these other guys. There's amazing opportunity. And I, it was one of the few jobs that I've had that I absolutely hated. It was awful. I hated it. Everyone was a complete a-hole and whatnot. He was great to me, but I ended up, I got pulled over by a guy and he's, Hey, what do you do? Yeah. I was coming back from a friend's house. Wasn't drinking or anything. He's what do you do? And I'm like, Oh, I'd work up in big sky and whatnot. And he's like, you want to side some houses? And I'm like, Oh, I know. This is great. Sure. Yeah. And he's like, here's my number. And he's like, have a good night. I call him the next day and he shows me his house. I'm like, Oh man, I can side this house. And he's like, sleep. And he pays five grand. And I'm like, again, this is insane. I won the lottery. And I'm like, hey dude, I don't have enough money to go out and buy all the tools. I didn't really have, I was 18. And he's, I'll tell you what, he's, I'll go with you to wherever we need to go. And he's, I'll buy all the tools and just deduct it. And so I'm out there siding houses, they're big condos. And I did that for, I probably did four of them. And then, you know, just boom, got tied in with all the young guys that were, I dropped names, you know, most of them. Work was insane back then. And if I look back now, it's the work I did was probably terrible. It's so downright shameful. Yeah. It was an odd time too. Things just got thrown out. I did stuff with and he's, man, Hardy Plank, you can get away with murder. You're like, Oh God, that's true. It was just, it was the wild west. It was, I'd be working on a house and I, and some other guy that's a firefighter that's building three spec houses a year, making an extra 300 grand would come down and, Hey, can you side my house? And you just, it was the whole snowball thing. And I did that until 2008. And it was like, wow, that was cool. I wish I had been good with my money. And during that time I look back and I didn't really learn. I learned how to frame and side fast. And basically it was like building a garden shed, really low level construction. Was there, you started off like on your own. Did you start like getting other dudes in the industry to come work It was always roughly anywhere from three to four of us. And really what we would do is, It was like whoever had the biggest job, you would jump on with them. Yeah. Half the time we'd trade hours. Yeah. And then or we'd just be like, oh, this job pays 10 grand. And there's three of us. We'll just split it in thirds. Total wild. Like no business plan. Yeah. Zero business plan. Just just rock and roll. Let's see how much money we can make and then split and. Never went like south, never went bad. Every guy just was, you're that young and you're making great. It seems like you're making great Then when the crash hit one of the GCs that I was doing a lot of stuff for, there's like a legend framer in the Valley. And he also, he had big crews always. He had two big crews. And when the crash hit, he landed a couple really big customs in North Dakota. It pretty much dissolved his crew. And one of the GCs that I worked for, he said, Hey JD, he landed two big customs and he needs help. Yeah. You want to go over there? Nice. And I was like, sure. Called him up and at this big house. If you stick it out with me, it pays 12 grand. Yeah. And he's we'll work for probably about 30 days straight. There's nothing else to do here. So I hooked up my camper and four hours into it, I was like, Oh, I don't know how to frame it. It was just a, it was a different level for North Dakota. It was like a Yellowstone clubhouse. I look back now and I'm like, it's easy, but yeah, it's different than track houses. And that was one of the hardest things I had done because he, For good or bad, he, his leadership style was very different and there was structure and there was zero structure from what I had been doing. And it was his way or the highway, but he had really good systems that made a lot of sense. And did that. And I went down with another buddy of mine and he was like, F this. I'm never doing this again. I'm never working with him again. And it was like, I knew it was like, if I stick around with this guy, Maybe I could be as good as him and I can learn a lot, learn a ton. So I worked with him for probably about two to three years. And it was, again, no, no structure as far as like a partnership or anything like that. It was just like, Hey, we split these houses and it wasn't down the middle. I did that for roughly two years. And quite frankly, it was because there was virtually no work around here. There was almost none. Yeah. There was nothing. Yup. And then when things started picking back up, that's when him and I, he actually started building his personal house and I wanted, I was like, man, I want to go and grew up. And that's when I crewed up, um, it would have been in 2000, 2012. Again, I look back now and it's like, I could have done things way better. You could have had a lot better structure and whatnot. Fought the battle of constantly dealing with employee turnover and whatnot. Constant. And then Pal and I got married in 2014 and going into it, she was in school in Colorado and knew we were going to, I was going to have to leave. So that was a tough transition because I was trying to get as much work here, build a crew. But then I knew, wait a minute, I'm going to leave. So that was a tough balance to do that. And when we moved down, I actually didn't want to work for myself. It was like, I'm not going to try to build a business there and do all that. I just kind of was mentally like, I didn't want to move there truthfully. I don't want to leave. I love it here. I can make one phone call and have a house, you know? And so I started scouting before we moved there and it quickly became apparent. I was like, I can't, the only way I can make a living down here is if I work for myself and crew up and whatnot. So I brought the, whatever I had down there, bought a forklift as soon as I got down there. And I also could tell right away, I was like, this is going to be really competitive. Started talking to people and I was like, Oh, That's a pretty nice house and really pays four bucks a foot. Wow. I can't make a, I'm actually going to be in the negative. Yeah, seriously. I just, I gotta go where the nicest houses are being built and try to prove myself. And that's what I did. And I ended up, it was such a blessing. I was able to work in one of the coolest areas. It was a, Again, the houses were Up in Big Sky, but for there, they're really nice houses. And I got tied in with a builder and I did pretty much the entire build out. That's awesome. Wow. And still dealt with the same problems. High employee turnover. I look back now and say, man, if I would have leaned into just understanding leadership and whatnot, I would have been so much better off. I didn't read, listen, or do anything regarding that. And this sounds insane, and it's embarrassing, actually, Yeah. No. When you're in like, when you're at the beginning and you're young, it's hard to, it's hard to grasp all of that. And when you're just, you're going from one house to the next, you already have this cycle of employee turnover. Like breaking that cycle means, okay, stop, hold on a second. full reframe and that just doesn't like mindset reframe and that doesn't happen. And that's where so many businesses get into that cycle where the owner, the founder, like whoever's running the show, there's no time to stop and just say, well, let's stop the madness. This is crazy. Yep. And it's a perfect example. You don't even know what that means. It's like, I'm going to go hiking or something. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And towards the end, I had the best crew to date. It was amazing. I actually convinced four of them to come up here when we moved back. Nice. We did a big house out on, now on Ellis Road. And this is amazing. Like these are my guys and I knew, I was like, none of them are coming around. And they did. Yeah. They were like, man, it's cool here. We're headed back. Oh, dang. The next house, I was literally out there by myself. Wow. And it was like, oh, here we go again. Start over. Start over. It's going to be. And it was a huge challenge. I did that for two years. It was constant turnover rate. I'll never forget one Monday morning. I got three texts right in a row. It was. I have court today. I'm sick. I'm in jail. I was like, wow, I have, but this is, and I was like, I'm done. Like I, I literally, I pretty much finished the job by myself and I regeared, started working with JD again, him and I partnered up and we did some amazing projects in big sky. And it was so funny because I was like, I'm a good framer now. And it was like, nope, more to learn. They were, again, they were completely different level houses and it was like, wow, yeah, I have a lot to learn. And it was such, I'm so glad I went through that because the awesome part about that was Most projects I was literally, I framed and I was out. I didn't think about what can I do or what needs to be done to make the cabinet guy's life go for him to have success on the job. what's it going to look like for me to do, think ahead to have success for the plumber and whatnot. And that's really, it wasn't just about bangs together. It was about how can I set, you know, the next subcontractor up for success. And that's what really, that's what really changed in being involved in that. And then at the very end, also seeing, Oh, you're in there and find out it's a $500,000 cabinet package. And the cabinet guys, I actually didn't have to scribe anything. I just, put my fillers through a table top and you're walking through and you're like, Oh, okay. And that's where it like clicked. And it was like, okay, every detail matters. And so I was involved with that for, it had been two and a half years. And then that's when I broke my leg. We were getting ready to start another really big house. Big project broke my leg and it was like, And I knew leading up to it, it was like, I can't do this forever. It wasn't like a viable business. It wasn't a business. I could just make really good money working really hard. But I knew Fallon and I were wanting, she was actually pregnant. It was like, this isn't going to last forever. I can't be working five days a week leaving. I never left early, but I usually wouldn't get home till nine o'clock. It was like, this isn't how I want to go into being a dad and raising kids. I knew eventually something was going to have to change. I didn't know how that looked. And I did eventually want to pivot and go a different direction, but break my leg, fast tracked it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Now I went from when you don't have a business, if you're not on the job or whatever, and the moment you can't be there, if you're making no money, it's not a business. You just, you have a job. Yeah. You signed yourself up for a job. Exactly. Absolutely. And I knew that I just wasn't willing to, necessarily take the next step because I really did enjoy it. It was a huge challenge. I was always constantly learning and being exposed to But I look back now and I'm like, that was helpful for Yeah, totally. That's so cool listening to that because what up till 2020 we're talking what 16 plus years, like the cycles that luckily were like, If you look on a graph, it's not linear increase, but there's like cyclical increase in your life and your leadership and your mindset and your understanding of how business work, how people work. And it's so cool looking back, it's a little painful, which is what most. business is when you're growing and learning and just life in general, it's part of growth, but like you would have these stopping points where it's okay, hold on, stop for a second, change that thinking. And like you said, that's when you're in Colorado and you're just bang, it's to make a change, you needed like a stopping point. And not for everyone, for you on some of those was like, receiving three texts in the morning on Monday morning saying your entire crew's not there and you have to frame the house yourself. You're moving to Colorado. You break your leg. Like they're pretty big things that hit in an instant that made you like, okay, mindset switch. And now we're going to learn something new and we're going to level up. And it's a bit of a painful way to go about it, but not everyone takes the learning. when those things happen. And it's really cool to see that you took the learning, you took the step up and then you made something new. So that's really awesome. And it's good to hear like the background of how you got here. And so in just a couple of sentences, like hearing that whole story, how did that shape who you are today? And you can cheat and use like the conversation of the cycles and learning. You've stepped up. over the past, you know, your entire life. And you've made changes at every different cycle, every different turn in life. And you've become a better man. You've become better in your relationships. You've gotten smarter. You've made changes for growth. And that's really cool. So like, how has that really shaped I've always been a really persistent person. I'll never forget. I was, lawns when I was little. And this neighbor, their grass was so freaking tall. It was like a hay field and they had a riding mower and I had never used a riding mower. And I was like, I want to use that riding mower so bad instead of a push mower. And I dinked around with the mower for It felt like all day. And the lady came up and she was like, wow, you are really persistent. Want me to show you how to start that thing? I would have been, it wasn't like a five acre lawn. It was like, it was a really small lawn. The grass was really long. And I'm like, I want to use a riding mower. I've never used one. It would be awesome. I'd rather work on the thing all day than push it. And I finally like, figured I finally got it going. And whether that was a good move or bad move, like I could have just cut my losses and been like, I'll just push Mo. But then I But you learned something new and probably made your life better. Cause Yeah, exactly. And then I, yeah, it was like, I just always used a riding mower, but I'll never forget that. She was like, wow, you're really persistent. So I would say, I am a really persistent person. And then I've always, I've not always done it well, but I've always hoped and prayed and tried to have an attitude of humility. And then I can always be, that's something that I've tried really hard. I don't always fail at it and whatnot, but always trying to have humility to be like, okay, I need to And what can I learn? Persistence. That's awesome. That's care in my eyes. And that's what, makes not only our industry keep getting better, but like just Yeah. It's very cool. Okay. All of your time in as being a framer and then especially like your transition to working with JD. And like you said, you walk through, you go back through a house that you framed and the cabinet guys like, dude, I didn't have to scribe anything. Holy shit. These walls are straight is amazing. I assume in that moment you felt great pride. So how has that pride and quality and focusing on your work quality transferred into your life as a manager, your life and your current relationships, your It's sounds like a little cliche, but like taking ownership of everything, taking ownership of everything, having pride in everything you do on the job, off the job, owning it and essentially being proud of it. Saying, Hey, I'm proud of this. I feel like I And then. What did, if you went back through and you talked to the cabinet guy and he said that, what did that teach you about work ethic and pride that you have then pulled forward into to not do what's just easy and quick. Yeah. Don't do what's easy and Cause that when your business retains more money by speed and efficiency and whatnot, it's so easy for people to just have the mindset of I need to get in and out. Yeah. And that was probably one of the biggest things that I learned was don't think about the money, do a good job and the money will come. Man. Okay. That's yeah. That was a huge tipping point. Yeah. And then also it was like, Oh, I am making good. And that's something I've worked on dealing with other subcontractors. Don't let the money be the focus. And you like when money is the focus for people, it's so easy to see. Yeah. All you care about is making good money. And when people remove that aspect and it's a much deeper connection of, It's not about the money. It's not about just, how can I get in, get out, go on to the next thing? How can I get in, get out and go on vacation or whatever? Not against guys making money, and I'm not against vacations or having nice stuff, but like, when that's the sole purpose, it flushes itself out in Absolutely. It's not sustainable. And that's, granted, that's very prevalent in probably every industry, but in construction, it's super prevalent. all of a sudden you told the story yourself. You come out of high school, especially these days, like whether you go to college or not, it doesn't really matter, but like you come out of high school and all of a sudden you're making a shit ton of money on sometimes day one, sometimes it takes a little bit to get there, but it's like, it can happen really fast. Totally. Yeah. And it's, but then a lot of the times, like there is a cap there. And so understanding, like coming in and making that money super fast, it breeds that, That mindset of, this is easy, I can just like bang stuff out and keep going down the line. And some guys continue it, but most of the time, even if they make it years doing that, it doesn't seem like it really leads to something real Okay. So taking that and I'm changing, I'm trying to figure out how to ask this, but like taking that understanding of sustainability, What breeds that sustainability? So for you, it was a whole lot of like ups and downs and cycles. I know guys, young guys who right now are framing in our area, we're making shit tons of money and they're in their early twenties, they're running a crew and everything's fantastic. Is that sustainable or what do they need to do to make a mindset shift or a learning shift in order to It really depends on where they want to go. If they're just like, Hey, I want to just not really learn, grow, get challenged. I just want to bang cracker box homes together. Yeah. They're going to be able to stay in that place for as long as the market allows. What about their body? That was my next thing. Right. That's yeah. Like at some point your body is going to wear out and you won't be able to have the production that you did. It's life. And I know guys that are there right now. I really do. Yeah. You would know who they are. And I think that would be a very hard transition. When I talk to younger guys and they'll talk to me about certain projects and this project effing sucks. Like it's so hard and stupid. It has 20 pages, not 15. Yeah. There's times where I had that mentality and it's no, we need to rise to do hard and to do those challenging projects and to do the projects that are like, Oh man, I'm going to have to think about this. That's what leads to sustainability in my opinion. like doing the projects that like, you're going to have to really think about whatnot. You're just always out doing things where you can just shut your brain off. Like you're not growing, you're not getting challenged. And at some point, like, you're not going to be able to do it anymore. And if you haven't also taken the time to train guys to then do it and you can lead them like you're also setting it up where it's going to be really easy for them to go, Oh, nevermind. I'm just going to do this on my own. And that is what, that's the biggest thing you see. in, I would say in construction in general, but anytime it's the barriers, easy to barrier of entry is easy and whatnot. Guys are just going to do it. I can't imagine being painting contractor, like no offense to painters, but like someone can go out and spend two grand and get some ladders and a sprayer and That's not a good business. No, totally. Now, if you like build like up to a quality standard and have guys who follow you, that's the transition point, right? Is like actually doing the thing that makes you care. Yes. So from what I'm hearing is it doesn't matter if you're a painter, a cabinet guy, a framer, concrete guy, like when you transition from just caring about the money and banging stuff out to actually giving a shit about your work product, there's Yes. And it's a mind shift. Okay. And it, like I said before, it fleshes itself out in the performance of the work, the quality and the attitude of people that Yeah. And I know I'm throwing some curve balls at you, but from what I'm hearing, and I would agree, is that transition to actually giving a shit and caring less about the money and more about the work product and the relationships are the two things that would make you go from a 22 year old who's making three, 400 grand a year but doesn't have a future unless, I don't know, maybe you invest it really well, but most of those guys are buying boats. So there's ways, but like transitioning to a sustainable business is to care less about the money and care more about the product and the people and the money comes with it. Yes. So the curve ball for you is how the hell, if someone is listening to this podcast right now, who's in that position and they're crushing it and they're high on life. Yep. I think the, I like, I made the, I made 250 grand when I was 26. Before that I was making like 40 grand a year at most. And it went, it bumped like crazy. So like I'm talking about guys who are making way more money than I was earlier. And how do you help them or say something right now that helps them go, Oh shit, maybe I need to consider what this guy's talking about. And I need to go read a book. I need to consider what it takes to build a business that's sustainable for the rest of my life. And I would say Dave Ramsey's book, how to build a great business is actually a pretty good fricking book. Oh, It's actually super good. He talks about all the different phases of the business and whether you're, you have a construction company and you got four guys or you got 40 or 400 guys. I think it's very, it's super applicable how he talks about it. And I see you got traction up there, how to be a great boss, his book, how to build a great business is a little easier I think to understand. And it's like dub down and just like a simple version. You talk the trailblazer phase and all these different phases. It's awesome. I wish I would've read that book when I was 25 and I Everyone should probably read that coming out of high school. Like if you have any entrepreneurial I'm not going to buy a boat and a Harley and invest in people and equipment and buy some property and whatnot. Cause it starts really spinning your wheels. And I would say it's a young guy and he's out and he's framing and he has a handful of guys underneath him and he's making great money. I'd be like, man, honestly, I wouldn't be like, Hey, you should now go and start framing houses up in big sky. Cause they pay 50 bucks a foot. Cause then he's going to be going up there for the wrong reasons. And I had this conversation with a young guy who's doing really good here. I was like, man, I would, I wouldn't just bail on framing apartments and whatnot because you think you can make more money up in big sky. Cause if you do that, You're going up there for the wrong reason. Going up there because you think you can make three times the amount of money and You have no idea what it's going to change. You're going to be upset because everything is hard and really hone in your skills, whatever vocation it is. I would say work on systems and processes of whatever your vocation is, and then slowly start to make the transition and start slowly working into projects that are going to strain you and be like, Oh, this is going to be challenged. This is going to be a challenge for me and my team versus I'm 100%. I love that. At this point, like, if someone young is listening to this episode, like, take that and you can turn the episode off right now and go read Dave Ramsey's book. Go read like 30 other books. Totally. And if someone wants a list, you can message us and happy to share. But going forward, like beyond that, now I want to talk about leadership. Some for you. So we're talking about this guy. this fake guy who there's real ones out there making this transition. Right. And like the only way that they're going to learn this stuff is by probably making the transition and being more excited about the art of their craft instead of the money. Right. Go to Big Sky, get a project. No shit. probably not going to make money at this project, but I'm going to learn so much. And then I am going to figure out how to make money with this, but I'm going to make a relationship. Like that's a transition mindset and growth point that someone in that position could easily make to then moving on to the next step in business. Absolutely. But whether, so we've got two things, we've got leadership, and we've got guys, one course in life in construction for a framer who's running a good business, but maybe wants to have a business where they don't have to run their body down, is to then become a GC. And it's very prevalent in our industry. Nine times out of 10, I think most framers are becoming track home GCs, which is great. A lot of them become extremely successful. It's freaking fantastic. Like we need those houses. You went a bit of a different way. You learned how to frame these really difficult houses in YC. And then when you and I got together, we were doing smaller houses down here, custom stuff, but smaller. And we worked our way up to doing bigger stuff in Big Sky. So the question here for you is if someone wants to go from being in the trades and changing their business up, whether they're a business owner, they're working for someone, doesn't really matter to starting into more of the GC field and becoming more of a manager. What are the key things that got to change that they're going to have to learn? And, and I'm talking communication, people, all of that stuff. Like the modification from using your hands to swing a hammer to running a GC is largely management. Yes. In your mind, you run the entire field crew for Momentum Customs. What, like, what is that transition to managing? And you can give us a couple of the hard things you learned that would probably help. One of the biggest things is communication. You and I have also talked about that. The new generation, you have to talk to people differently. How it is, you can talk to a 60 year old journeyman carpenter or stonemason different than you can talk to a 25 year old. But nine times out of 10, when you're dealing with people from a management perspective, transitioning from, say, being like a crew leader on a framing crew or whatever it might be, to being an onsite manager, managing lots of subs. It's going to be communication styles, tone. Tone is a really big one and I've literally seen it. Having a bird's I'm like, oh, this is funny. Yeah. It's crazy once you start to see it, right? Yeah. And in seeing how people respond to it and it's, I wouldn't bother me, but person is a different generation. So yeah. I know one situation. So great. I love it. Yeah. And it's so funny. And so communication styles, tone are, they're huge and it's so weird. to say that, but it's just reality and it's just where we are. But in reality, all of us, no matter how much we think that we're immune to how people treat us, we're really not. Yeah. End of the day, we're all, we're all humans and we want to be treated with dignity and respect. Yes. But it really does. I think communication and communication styles and tone is a pretty big one. And that's, for me, that was one of the most challenging things that I was just like, this is screwed up. Like Like all of it was true, but I went into it that way. I did not get the result. I did not Interesting. Okay. So like, Some people, probably not a lot. If guys are in construction listening to this podcast, maybe they think this, maybe they don't, but the outside view of construction is a bunch of It's still that way in commercial, in my opinion. Yeah, I think commercial is largely that. From what I've seen just being on our last project, it was like, I'd Yeah. Everyone's pissed off and it's, and then like our team, I I would always just be like, it was the joke. Paul and I would be like, everyone just Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Okay. So communication, people enjoying their job, actually being happy. If you were talking to someone who is making a transition into this more management type position or making that transition to full management, And you're talking about communication. What I heard a lot from you is that, and I'm putting words in your mouth, but what I'm hearing is the construction industry needs more empathy in its communication. And that's my take on it, but I'd love to understand you talked about communication. You talked about tone. What does that really mean for the care about the person you're talking to and how you communicate with them? Like you said, tone can totally set something off completely and piss somebody off. Whereas everyone thinks like in construction, you just yell at people and shit gets done, but it's not how it happens. So like, how do you communicate and I think soon as people can see that you have the attitude and that you're I think that totally switches things around. Yeah. And if you're offering solutions with our, with one of my last biggest confrontation, I had a little bit of time to self reflect and it was like, yeah, I, instead of just telling the person, did you forget how to do your job? And that's all I said. I could have done it better. In my mind, it was like, I asked if you forgot how to do your job. Like I didn't tell you you're a loser or anything like that. And it got taken pretty wrong. And I'm glad I went through that because it was like, okay, no matter who it is, I'm going to reverse that. And try to unpack it a little better so they can, so they maybe have the time, so they can maybe look at it and go, yeah, you To take, give them an opportunity to take some ownership instead of Yes. Give them the opportunity to have ownership. And then if they're like, no, I think that's great. We're unfortunately probably not going to work out. Yeah. Exactly. We have a different standard, whatnot. And probably then they're going to be like, Oh yeah. Oh shit. Yeah. Instead of being like, you're an a-hole and them feeling they were the better person in that. Yeah. Offering solutions in being, helping them realize that you're there to help them and Yeah. That makes sense. It does. And one thing I've noticed with you and I'm speaking for you here, but something that I noticed with you is you say that you're there communicating for the success of the project, but what's so cool about you and why I brought up like, empathy mixed with accountability is that you also have a habit of being there for the success of the subcontractor. And at Momentum, it's a core principle of ours. Like when we're estimating, when we're setting up project budgets, money is a big piece of success for our subcontractors. So is enjoying their job. So we are very cognizant of creating that success for them and helping them get it. And in your communication, I noticed that you do care about that. So not only from the admin side, are we trying to set the project up for success? So subs are making the amount of money that they need to in order to be successful. And hopefully for them to move to retirement in the future and make a successful business in your communications, you make it very obvious and you help people get that success on our projects. And that's really cool. Oh, thank you. So a lot to learn. We all do. We all do. So asking the question in just a tiny bit different way, how do you balance accountability and Boy, I knew you were going to ask this question. And I was like, I have this weird thing. I hate the Totally. I noticed it in your face when I asked it, dude, the first time. I was like, wow, he didn't like that word. It was even on Yeah. There's this book called The Sin of Empathy and I want to read Did you have like, I know that's a tough one. That's on the spot, but is there a word or a way to describe what I'm talking about as empathy? I mean, you did it with tone and communication, but is there another word that describes how you communicate because you care about these other people's success and you care about them as a Yes. It's a really hard balance. It is because at the same time, you can't just be like, Oh man, like, whatever flies. It's not a sob fest and it's not like you just get to do whatever the It's honestly no different than dealing with kids. Whatever discipline might look in someone's household, if you don't discipline your kids, you're doing them an injustice and a disservice and they're going to grow up to probably not respect people and whatnot. And not that you need to treat people and you shouldn't treat people like kids on the job. Sometimes it feels like you're dealing with kids. The communication style is similar in many cases. But it is. And I have to sometimes check my heart because there's people that kind of make my blood pressure rise. I need to check my heart. Am I, how I'm communicating to these people, am I trying to make myself look better or am I trying to make them look better and help encourage them? As a leader, we should always be leading with courage and rising up to make them better and not make ourself, myself look better. And there are certain people that just, they naturally will bring it out in you. Want to make yourself better. Totally. And I need to put that to death because it doesn't matter who it is. I need to treat, I need to treat everyone with the same level of respect. There are certain people that you just have to have, different styles of communicating and you also can't just let people walk all over you. That's the whole clear as kind thing. Yes. Being very clear with people. This is a standard. Keep You're not just going to continually let a guy call in and be like, Hey, I'm home over again and be like, you're okay with that. It's one time. It's okay. Hey, what's going on? I'd be like, Hey, Is something going on in your life? Or were you just being a jackass? We're gonna let it slide. But if it's a reoccurring thing, we're gonna have a problem and we're gonna need to talk. And letting you continue that behavior is actually not okay. I like that. Clear as kind equals accountability. Okay, so we've talked a lot about connection with subcontractors. You run the field crew of our employees, which are all management employees. So things get difficult on the day to day on occasion, because they're also trying to work with subcontractors. They're trying to communicate in a clear and kind manner with whatever you want to call it, empathy or whatever, but keep accountability. And sometimes it gets difficult. how you are very good at keeping morale up with the people that you supervise. Is there a specific I fail at it all the time, unfortunately. I don't do it well all the time. A Bible verse that I've been trying to memorize and just always contemplate on, it's Proverbs 11, 14, and it's where there is lack of guidance, the people fall, but under great leadership, there's great victory. I mean, it's like a challenge to like, Hey, and it's not like a demeaning way to look at employees. I need leadership. I need guidance. I don't have that. I'm going to run off the rails. Like it's just human nature. We can all try to fool ourselves and be like, Oh, I'm a badass. I'm not going to do this. Obviously there's certain things like I'm not going to walk out of this interview, do a line of heroin. I'm still, I'm susceptible to be a dick to someone probably. We're all human, right? Yeah. I need to like keep that in check. So it's, I don't know. It's I think about that and it's rise up and have help give people guidance just as much as I need guidance. And we're all going to face our days. Tomorrow's always the next day is always going to be a new day, but I love that. I love that. All right. Two more questions. So, If you had to blow it all down, we're going to go back to the first portion of the interview regarding guys who are in the trades and maybe want to make a change for their business or their life. If you had to blow it all down, what's the one thing that a trades guy, whether he's framing, whether he's doing cabinets or whatever that is, What do they need to understand before moving into leadership? And this is probably looking at, trying to figure out how I'm asking this question. This is a one man show who's doing all the work. And what we talked about is you can make good money doing that. A cabinet guy who runs his own shop and does all of his own installs can make a shit ton of money. It's awesome. But your body only lasts so long and you start getting slower, you start getting less efficient. How do you make the transition to leadership to where you start involving other people in your business to start making it a business that you don't have to So are you asking the question if they want to completely transition out of their current business or vocation? Nope. It's mostly the question is like, what does anybody need to learn from going from a one man show to moving into leadership? Basically starting to work with other people and understanding how to delegate and understanding how to communicate. Delegate and elevate. Yeah, It's not that easy. It's not that easy. It's pretty easy to say. Simple, but not easy. Yeah. Boy, I've actually been thinking about this a lot. just having a 30,000 foot view, looking at like other framing contractors around here. Say if I was to do it again, I'm like, holy crap. Like I, there's no like secret sauce, certainly. Just finding reliable employees. You ask any business except us. Pretty awesome. Really high turnover rate. And it's just, it's their number one thing. They're going to be like, the harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Yeah. A hundred percent. The labor pool is dry. Yes. So I don't, that's a mystery. Just getting more available workers would be a great start. Getting young people interested in trades. Yeah. And construction in general. Yeah. Trades and construction First, if you build a culture, that's going to be you. And that's something that you are a master at. Appreciate it. Love it. Got a lot of help from you and others. You were, I remember you were like talking about it when we were first working together and it was super, it was like, Oh, you're like, planning fun Christmas parties when it's you and I. Yeah. And our wives. Yeah. And our admin y'all at the time. Yeah. Oh, this is totally different. Yeah. I know people that have big businesses and they don't do anything. They're like, are you working on Christmas? Yeah, exactly. That type of thing. And I always hated that. Always just drove me nuts. And so if you build a culture, That's going to be huge where people feel valued in. You obviously got to have people to build a culture. Yeah, exactly. Building a culture is going to be one of the number one things. Then having this again, going to sound super cliche, but having systems and processes. in roles for each individual, finding the right person, finding the right seat and putting those people in there and then honestly empowering and trusting. And that's super hard and super scary to do because it's famous. How do you know that they're going to do it? Don't, you just got to trust them. You just got to give them the tools and you obviously have to set them up for success. Yep. So as far as there is no secret sauce, there's no, if you're a one man band, it's going to be really, But if you're wanting, if you have employees and people on your team and you want to be able to work on the business instead of in the business, I think building culture is your absolute key to success. And if you don't build culture, people aren't, That's awesome. As soon as you're absent, they're going to have the attitude of They're just always going to have this attitude of, Oh, the boss is due or the boss is gone. And you got to change that time. You got to squash that mindset and make Yep. Beautiful. I love that. That's awesome. All right. So we always finish up the podcast with a question for the guest. And that is a very simple one, sometimes not easy. What does success mean to you? What? You don't know what I'm talking about. Yeah. And it changes. Oh, it totally changes. It's a fun question because it's very difficult. Actually, it can be easy. It can be very difficult and What does success for you mean personally? When my Kids are older and they love God and hopefully they have great spouses and a great family. And I have a marriage that's flourishing and wife's thriving. Obviously money is awesome and it's a really good tool and it provides a lot of things. But if I don't have those things, I think, that it's like, Yeah. Beautiful. And I mean, I love toys and whatnot and those things are all great, but yeah, I be just missing out Beautiful. Nice. Thank you so much for coming today. Thanks for having me. Very awesome. And I hope this is helpful for any listeners. I think it was fantastic and very helpful. So thank you for taking the time. Thank you for opening up about your history and how you got here. And I'm blessed to have you in my life. So thank you. And I appreciate you being here today. Thanks, man. Okay. Thanks, man. Thanks for tuning in to The Success Architect. If today's episode helped you lay a stronger foundation for your business or your life, subscribe and share it with someone ready to do the same with theirs. You can follow me, Jake Lewendal, on social for daily tips on health, wealth, and building success that lasts. Until next time, keep designing,