The Success Architect
Success doesn’t happen by accident — it’s designed, built, and reinforced brick-by-brick. On The Success Architect, builder and business strategist, Jake Lewendal brings a craftsman’s mindset to personal growth, wealth, and high-performance leadership.
With raw honesty and practical frameworks, Jake breaks down the systems, habits, and decision-making principles that separate the overwhelmed from the unstoppable. From building multi-million-dollar companies to coaching ambitious people, Jake’s philosophy is simple: success is a structure, and every person can learn to build it.
Each episode blends actionable strategy with real-world conversations featuring high-impact, career-driven entrepreneurs and operators who are building lives of purpose, discipline, and momentum.
This is for the ones who build. The ones who take responsibility. The ones who know they’re meant for more — and are ready to architect a life of depth, strength, and true success.
The Success Architect
Why Most Relationships Fail | Communication, Trust & Growth with Makenzie Lewendal
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Episode 16 of The Success Architect dives into one of the most important aspects of life and success: relationships.
In this episode, we discuss how to build healthy relationships through better communication, trust, emotional intelligence, accountability, and personal growth. Whether it’s marriage, friendships, business partnerships, leadership, or family, strong relationships shape every area of our lives — and poor communication can quietly break them down.
We talk about modern relationships, conflict resolution, connection, leadership within relationships, balancing ambition with personal life, and the habits that create long-term trust and respect. This conversation is focused on building stronger relationships in both life and business while becoming a better communicator, partner, friend, and leader.
If you’re looking for insight on healthy relationships, communication skills, emotional maturity, leadership, self-awareness, and personal development, this episode delivers practical perspective and honest conversation designed to help you grow.
The Success Architect Podcast | Episode 16
Relationships, Communication, Leadership & Growth
Host: @jakelewendal
Guest: @makenzie.lewendal
Welcome to the Success Architect, where we don't just build homes, we build legacies. I'm your host, Jake Lewendal, custom home builder and coach. Each week, I sit down with builders and entrepreneurs who are ready to 10x their business, their health, and their mindset. This is where blueprints become breakthroughs. Let's get to work. Today we're going to run through uh possibly five sections. We've got roughly five to talk about. We'll see where we get because uh where there's gonna be a lot of moving pieces, but I'm really excited to talk about a lot of communication today, a lot of different aspects of how we work as individuals and together in our relationship in order to keep the fun, the excitement, the spontaneity while still living within the system of what a marriage is. So super excited. Let's get started.
SPEAKER_00So good to be back. I'm excited to talk about this. I think it'll be a good refresh for even us to just verbalize it and talk through a lot of these things because I think once you do get into the day-to-day of life, it's easy to forget these things if you're not revisiting them frequently. So I'm excited to talk through it.
SPEAKER_01I am too. And it's uh it's gonna be really fun. We were reviewing uh the questions that we we came up with together, and they're really hard to answer. So we'll see how today goes. It's gonna be great. Uh all right, so section one out of five is what do people get wrong about marriage? So the the main question, and it's a long one, so we'll we'll hit little bits of it, but what do people misunderstand most about marriage? What it really feels like day to day, what actually makes it strong, and why love alone isn't enough. So, first off, on the day-to-day, um uh people think if it's right, it should stay easy. And that's like a misnomer that I see at the beginning where you have the lust, the affection, and the excitement and spontaneity. You maybe you don't work together, maybe you do. Solid chance in many relationships, you don't have kids already. You're in the honeymoon phase. Um, but the honest truth is that once you get past that, it's work. And so on the day-to-day, number one, how do you maintain the fun and the excitement while getting into the nitty-gritty of life? What's the work? And because it's a lot of work to do so, is it worth it?
SPEAKER_00I think starting out, I think what a lot of people get wrong about relationships and marriage is they think it's all about just finding the right person. And I think more than finding the right person, it's being so committed to showing up as a better partner over and over and over rather than just finding the right person.
SPEAKER_01So instead of finding the right, no, I'm saying I'm just saying it's like instead of finding the right person, it's all about you becoming the right person.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and just the commitment. I mean, you will evolve so much. I mean, I look back to the beginning of our relationship, and it's had so many different evolutions, but the biggest shift for us has been the commitment to evolving as the person, just evolving as the partner that I show up as and not being so stuck in my own ways that I can't evolve to meet our relationship where it's at in the different phases of life.
SPEAKER_01So is the evolution just about you or just about me? How do you delineate between the two with coming from your point of view?
SPEAKER_00You have to be committed to doing the work yourself because you have to each show up as a whole person instead of showing up as a half person needing something from that other person, almost hoping that it will fix you. And I think it's like that even in business. We've talked about before. When we've gone into business partnerships needing something from someone, and we both did it in business partnerships, showed up when we were thinking that that business partner would help fix the insecurities that we carried. You get into this weird expectation needing cycle. And then when they're not fixing you almost or fixing the insecurities that you have, fixing the problems that you have, it brings out this really weird dynamic and you start to lose the fun in relationships. So it's really looking inward, doing the work yourself so that you can show up as a whole person. And I think that's where the fun really takes off in your relationship, and then never forgetting to date each other. And it's we had dinner with friends last night, and I was talking to Christy, and she was even saying, like, sometimes it's hard to get to dinner because you have so much stuff going on with kids, so much stuff going on in relationships, life, everything. But once you're there, it's like you can just talk and be with each other again. And I know we've committed to date night every single week, and we've done that for years, and it's so hard to get there sometimes, but I do think it keeps a little bit of that spark in your relationship where you don't have to be business partners, you don't have to be mom and dad, you don't have to be stressed from the week. You get to just show up and have a little bit of that spark, and then just having fun with each other and forgetting life is not as serious as it needs to be. So having that fun. Like even when I was picking up dog poop this morning, because we have to take our dog, eats crap all the time. You're like looking at me from the front door, laughing at me.
SPEAKER_01I actually filmed it and I didn't tell you.
SPEAKER_00Okay. But I was like, this is like you just have to laugh in those moments and keep the fun because if you take it too serious, it it'll beat you down.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, 100%. That is awesome. Uh so similar to the date nights, where it's in order to have the consistency of the fun and the excitement, you have to make the commitment to show up. Yes. And so every week it's so easy to cancel a date night. It's so easy to cancel on friends when we have an intention, especially this year, just so happens, an intention of ours is to build better friendships. It's way too easy to cancel last minute and say, Hey, this just got got really hard. Yeah. Last night, actually, uh our friend texted like two hours before and just said, Hey, and I know you're super busy. If you want to cancel, like that's okay. And I didn't tell you that because I was like, no, if both of us have that option, we might actually cancel. And I was like, no, no, no, we're we're going. Yes. And if it's for an hour, great. If it's for three hours, like that is once you're there, it's so much fun.
SPEAKER_00And it's the break that you need, but it's that like snapping out of reality. It's been a hard week, it's been stressful to showing up for yourself, showing up for each other, and showing up for something other than showing up for fun.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And so taking that date night as a metaphor, that's how we have to show up every day in our marriage. It's really easy to cancel on the day. It's really easy to not give that kiss before you leave or say I love you, or make a phone call on the way home to just say, Hey, I was thinking about you. But committing to that small action is what really can help our day-to-day continue to include the excitement, the love. And that way you're not just roommates or business partners. Yeah. Because that's what a lot of people fall into.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's easy. It's easy to fall into that. And I think not becoming it always amazes me when people, you see, people break up or get divorced divorced and all of a sudden they get in the best shape of their life. And it's like, why not have that standard for yourself and that standard for your marriage that you want to do that for each other and for yourself in that marriage? What about the breakup or something? Like, why does the effort then go there? Why isn't that effort in your marriage and in your relationship? Because if the effort's there, you're probably not getting to that divorce point. You're probably not getting to that breakup point. But it's when you become complacent it and cancel date night. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's really easy to cancel date night and cancel daily on that small thing where you're supposed to show up and you just don't. That's amazing. So is love enough to create a long-term marriage? Just love.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01I agree.
SPEAKER_00It's not enough. It's it's just not love will ebb and flow throughout the different seasons in life. I mean, there's it just said ebbs and flows in different seasons in life. And I remember somebody commented on one of the posts that I had done about our relationship, and someone said, You guys are so lucky that you have each other. Like it makes it it makes it easier, something along the lines of that. And I do feel yeah, I do feel lucky that we found each other, but we've also both committed to always doing the work with each other. I mean, there's been plenty of times where it would have been easier to probably call it quits, not fight for each other, fight for our marriage. And so, yes, there's a little bit of luck, but like it takes a lot of work. And if we were both the people we were when we got married, our relationship would look completely different. We definitely would not be able to work together.
SPEAKER_01I don't know if we'd be together.
SPEAKER_00I know, I don't know if we would either. And so it's just being committed to doing the work, having the hard conversations, being committed to always knowing that when you're fighting, when you're in the hard times, that I think you sent it to me. It was always remembering in fights, like even saying to each other to kind of like break the train of thought, like, hey, we're on the same team. And it really is a good reset because it's easy to get defensive in fights. It's easy to start seeing like you versus me and getting very like just polarizing when you're fighting, but remembering, like, hey, it's like it's us. It's we're on the same team. We can be mad at each other, we can fight, but at the end of the day, we're on the same team. I think it's good that you and I are both very impatient people because most of our fights don't last super long. They get pretty heated pretty quick, but then they fizzle because I just don't have time for it. I don't think you have time for it right now either. It's like it doesn't feel good. And for the most part, we've committed to not fighting the same fight more than a couple times because I just don't like taking the time for it.
SPEAKER_01And we're on the same team.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So if I could sum it up in a really easy way, there's a dichotomy that happens here, right? Because we've got a healthy marriage that includes stability, safety, honesty, being grounded, diving into details like having financial stability and and making stable decisions. But there's also the piece where in order for the marriage to continue and for us to enjoy life, some spontaneity, some fun. Like it all has to be there.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_01And the problem is that usually there's a turning point where it goes from spontaneity and fun and excitement to the steady, safe, honest. Um, to sum this section up, can you describe the 8515 statement that you love so much because it works perfectly for this?
SPEAKER_00I saw on a show they were saying that 85% of the work is it's the easy part. It for most people, in anything you do, 85% of it will be it comes pretty easy. The last 15% is where the work has to go in, but the last 15% is where the magic happens. So putting that work in the last 15%, like that is when we both started doing that. I will say that is, those are the times that our relationship has been the strongest, has been the most on fire, has felt the most connected when we fall off of that last like 15%. I mean, the last four weeks has been a great example. It's yeah, we've had the kids have been sick, you've been sick, there's Beckham had to have mouse surgery. Like there's been a lot of things going on and it has pulled us into different directions. And I've even felt like our the feeling of connection to you has dwindled a lot in the last four weeks. And it's interesting that when that connection dwindles, we fought more in the last four weeks.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And even just about petty shit, where it's like, why are we arguing about this? But we've let that 15% kind of go by the wayside. And so it's it's that last 15%. It's where the magic happens. It's where the fun is.
SPEAKER_01And just to sum that up, I don't want to repeat, but I want like the real raw version of the 85-15. 85% of life. If if you have a great life, financial success, uh, beautiful, healthy children, steady, stable relationship, not a lot of fighting. That's the 85.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it feels good.
SPEAKER_01What's the 15 and what really makes you 100%?
SPEAKER_00Um what really when I'm showing up for myself, I notice a huge difference too. When I'm not canceling on myself, when I'm showing up for myself and I feel whole as a person, I'm able to show up too. But it's date nights, it's good sex, it's great conversation, it's having fun with the kids, it's being present, it's your mind is not so bogged down with everything else that you're able to almost just like live fully present in the moment instead of being okay with good enough. Like you're like, okay, it's good enough, but what is great right now? What makes it great? And there is a feeling, like you will feel that shift. And you don't live in that 15% all the time. Like it ebbs and flows. And I also think that that's what makes it so great is that you know what the 15% doesn't feel like. So when you're there, you're like, this feels just incredible. Then it kind of comes back down, and it's time to like re-up that energy and put that energy so that you get back to that 15% for a little bit.
SPEAKER_01Beautiful. I love that. All right. So section two, we talk about when marriage becomes really real. We've got the beginning phase. Uh, but when the marriage shifts from just chemistry, attraction, excitement, the honeymoon phase into something deeper. Uh, something we realized that we had to intentionally protect, build, and work on if we wanted it to stay amazing. Um I don't know if you can pinpoint this because I'm not sure I can, but do you think there was a moment in time that this happened or was it gradual?
SPEAKER_00There's been different moments for me throughout the course of our relationship when this has happened. The first time we were newly married, and it was really realizing no one's coming to save you except yourself. So when you're younger, I mean your parents will pick up the slack for some stuff sometimes. You have professors that help in school. You have, you have guides throughout the way. And when you're in this marriage, you're both navigating it together and you have no idea what you're doing. And so that was the first time for me when we were younger and really realizing, like, okay, nobody's coming to save this. I also had to, I think a lot of women can relate in the sense, I don't know if guys do it, you might. When we would have fights, I would always go to my girlfriends first and I would vent about our fights to girlfriends so much that by the time you came home that night or I saw you, I had talked about it so much I didn't really care to talk about it with you anymore. I was kind of over it. I still had a little chip on my shoulder, but not enough to talk to you about it. And so it had fizzled enough that we kind of just moved on. It felt better to just see you, not have to talk about it. And then that same fight would come up again and rear its head in a different form. When I stopped venting to friends about it and made the commitment that you were the first person I talked to about the fight, it's crazy how we stopped revisiting the same things over and over.
SPEAKER_01Stopped having the same fights over and over.
SPEAKER_00So I'd say that was the first time. The second time I felt that shift in our marriage was right before we had kids. I don't really know what that shift was for me. And then I felt it again after we've had kids. Like there's been midlife crisis. Yes, actually. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So my midlife crisis was probably sometime around that. And I and I say midlife crisis in a joking way. Usually I think uh men, I guess, traditionally seem to show up in a midlife crisis uh by buying a bunch of stuff. Go buy the Ferrari or something so you can be glamorous and whatever. And it seems like usually that happens more like in your 50s. I was like 29 or 30, and I went on a buying spree because I literally thought my life was over when we were gonna have a kid. And it was super interesting, and it was kind of fun to go on a buying spree, but also was a little ridiculous and unnecessary. And I realized as soon as she came, there wasn't really a change. Brooklyn. Mm-hmm. Yeah, like there was no change in in the negative. Like I felt closer to you, I felt close to her. Now, yes, there was a change. There was now more stress, I don't know about more conflict, but there was exhaustion uh and and more pressure for me to show up. But going through this little midlife crisis and then seeing our daughter come was a way for me to all of a sudden notice and take ownership that I can take the pressure and I can show up. And when I took the ownership personally, that I could show up and I could do this, then it made all that pressure go away, or it made that like change in life that I thought was coming, it made it not non-existent. Like life moved on. And so when we bring that to the marriage, that's where I really think when we have these transitions in marriage, when there's real stress and there's real conflict, and it stops being the honeymoon phase, even if it is cyclical and it jumps back and forth. I think for me, the thing that made it work was for me to find the power in myself to show up, to take ownership, to really make the change to actually show up for the family.
SPEAKER_00I agree. I also think it's similar to business when you start a business and you have kind of your core values set down. And in the moments of hard decisions, you really go back to your core values to am I making this decision because it meets these core values? Instead of getting distracted in the situation, distracted in the argument, you're going back to the core values. And I feel like we have a set of those in our marriage, and we do, we've added, we've we've added a couple. I mean, showing up with respect constantly to even when fights get heated, showing up with respect, never hanging the phone up on each other, not playing games, I think has been one of the biggest ones. We've never, we've never been, we've never played games with each other. It's if I say to you, like, I'm not doing X, I'm not doing X. I'm not saying it and then doing it later, and then you're when you play games, you stop taking each other serious. And I feel like it does break down a component of trust in a way, not trust in a bad way necessarily, but trust is in, okay, you're just saying that to say that. I know you're not serious. Like I do think you and I, because we don't play games, when we say something, we take each other pretty serious, and then not using the word divorce, and that's something that we did at within the relatively recent six months because we got in one of the worst fights we'd ever that we'd had in a long time.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You weren't giving me a reaction when we were fighting, and I was like, Well, I know that this will get a reaction. And I said, I might not want to be with you, and I got the reaction, but like such a I that was a game.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And And it's just not a term you throw around. So we have kind of this like running list of rules, core values, what you want to call them for our marriage. And falling back on those is when love's not enough, you fall back to those like core values. And it has a really good, strong foundation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And so this is how we take the system and we live our core values, which then goes back to bringing back the love and the excitement and the fun. Yes. So this is where like hopefully we take the cycles and we start making them a lot smaller. Yes. Because we learn. And yes, there's gonna be stress, there's gonna be conflict, there's gonna be exhaustion and and crazy times, even like the last four weeks. But we very quickly go back to those core values and it brings us closer. Yep. And it makes the love show up again. It's still there. Sometimes it just gets like covered up or like buried a little deep. And it helps us uncover it and bring it to the forefront again.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I think the quicker you can become selfless in your relationship. Like I'm always trying to think of, even because you got up with Beckham last night or the night before, I wanted you to be able, when he wakes up at 5 a.m., I wanted you to be able to sleep till 5 30. And I'll get up with him. Like always trying to think, how can I help you feel better? How can I help you do better? And that consideration there, knowing things that make you tick. Like one of my business partners would say, like, does it what makes you tick, what ticks you off? Knowing those things and trying to just trying to do small acts of kindness each day for each other too. You feel seen. And I think when you feel seen, you feel more understood. When you feel more understood, you feel safer in a relationship. When you feel safer, you just show up naturally better as your better self. So it's these little things where you're showing up better as yourself, but it's also because your partners it's just this circle.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're contributing. And when we both do that and we both are considering the other person and being selfless about it, all of a sudden it works. Yes. So a couple things, we already talked about our core values, but a couple things for listeners that are tactical that you can do when things get hard, when the fight comes up. Number one is apologizing without defending yourself. Number two is changing patterns. So we all say we're going to change. We all all go, yeah, I'll I'll make that change. And the thing I hated the most was when Mackenzie would say, time will tell. Because I used to say a lot and then I wouldn't take the actions. The the real meat is in changing your patterns and not just saying you're going to. Finally, most people avoid the deeper work because it means requiring ego surrender. And that is really hard for all of us. So I encourage you to dive into the deeper work. If you can take those three things when you're in the heat of the moment, it's really gonna help move on and reduce the cycles that we're talking about.
SPEAKER_00So before we're done on this, before we move on to the next section, um, when I used to say time will tell, I was being it was it was another statement to get a reaction out of you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I knew that that would trigger you in a way that would I knew you'd get stubborn and almost want to prove me wrong. Super immature way to go about it from my end. But I think it yes, piggybacks off of you saying, like, change the pattern. I had to change my pattern of instead of making sly little comments to try to trigger change almost or like create change, show up and have the conversation with you and say, Hey, here's what I'm seeing, here's what I'm noticing, and give that level of respect, which is one of our kind of core values of our marriage, instead of the smart ass remark.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_00And I will default to smart ass comments or trying to get a reaction out of you because I fight very fiery and you show nothing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sorry about that.
SPEAKER_00So it's been me looking at myself on how do I not give the smart ass responses or questions and just show up and show you the level of respect to have the conversation, which creates the real change in our relationship so much quicker than like the smart ass little remarks that I can pop off with so easily. Yeah, just had to piggyback off of it. I love that you don't say that anymore. But looking back, I would say that constantly in our relationship.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_00When you came home from Warrior, you started not just talking about the things you were going to change, you started actually doing the things. And I started, it created a stronger level of trust in our relationship because I didn't feel like you were just telling me what I wanted to hear. I didn't feel like you were just saying something because you thought that was the right thing to say. Like when you started doing things, you started saying, doing what you were saying, it built this level of trust for me with you, where I was like, okay, he means what he says.
SPEAKER_01And I think in my mind, I actually started to try to not say what I was gonna do because I knew I was doing it before. And I wanted to prove to myself and prove to you, like, oh, okay, I don't I don't even need to say the things anymore. I can just do them. Yeah. And that was a huge mindset shift for me that then ended in some actual change. So amazing. All right, so section three, we want to talk about communication and conflict. Uh, it's kind of a cornerstone in a marriage because everything that we've just talked about before, I mean, that's how humans interact. We can we communicate, and many times it leads to conflict. But luckily, conflict is a form of connection, and that's what makes healthy conflict in a relationship really work and lead to repair, which leads to more connection. So, what does healthy communication actually look like for us in the hard moments? What have we learned about what creates understanding versus what creates distance? So, healthy conflict does not mean no conflict, right? Like I just said, conflict is a way to connect, and finding healthy conflict and repair is a way to like superpower that connection, right? It's like a boost. So, in your opinion, whether we call it winning versus defending or good conflict versus bad conflict, how would you delineate between the two?
SPEAKER_00There's a couple different levels of it for me. The good conflict versus bad conflict is everything in your marriage is these building blocks. It always makes me laugh really hard when couples are like, we never fight, and they think that it's this like badge of honor that they never fight. And I'm instantly like if you're not fighting, there's so many things. Are you afraid to show up as you are afraid to show up as your true self because you're worried about something, there's going to be a division in your relationship if you show up as your true self. Are you not, are you just checked out and you don't care and you're not noticing anything, you're not upset about anything, there's no passion there. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Too much pride, too much ego.
SPEAKER_00But there is good conflict and bad conflict. And I think it really comes down to for me, at least, trust and respect. And I think that any conflict you have, if you show up with trust and respect, is good conflict. It's dropping your ego, dropping that. I just want to get acting like a four-year-old, where you're like, I just want to get my way. If you go into the conversation like that, for me, that's bad conflict. Like you're not having that mutual relationship where you want, you want each party to be heard. You want to, it's like you just want to have your cake and eat it too. You're throwing a tantrum, you're coming at it because of probably a lot of other stuff you've let build up. And then this has been your tipping point. So to me, that's bad conflict. You're going into it wanting to win, wanting to get what you want. You're not wanting growth of the relationship.
unknownSure.
SPEAKER_00Good conflict.
SPEAKER_01We're really quick on that. One of the things that I used to say, and this is more in business, but also for marriages, would you rather be right or would you rather get what you want?
SPEAKER_00Agreed. And they say it in bluey. I mean, Brooklyn repeated that back to you the other day about something. Yeah, it's so true. It's just, it's what you're going into the conversation, the conflict with. Good conflict to me is you feel the trust, you feel the security, and that's built from other things in your relationship where you can show up wholly as yourself. I show up to conflict way different than you show up to conflict. I show up like ready to fight. You show up in more of this like freeze. It takes you a little bit of time to process stuff. But even though I show up ready to fight with you, it's at it's it's more fiery. There's more passion behind it for me than you, but it's with a level of respect. I'm not cutting you down. I'm not throwing jabs at you. I'm not trying to break you down to get what I want. I'm communicating where I'm frustrated, what's going on for me? And it might be louder than you show up with. It might be more hand gestures. Like it's fiery when I show up, but it's not cutting you down. There's that level of respect there, but also there's that level of trust. I know I can show up like that with you, and you aren't going to say you're too much. You can't show up like that. You, we don't raise our voice, we don't, because I show up with the level of respect, but I also trust I can show up like that for it with you.
SPEAKER_01100%. So if I'm here and you're right, like good conflict is telling the truth, being respectful. And to me, when those come together, that means being emotionally present, not allowing you to basically step out of your body and and unleash, you know, fiery words. And it's essentially you're just not even there. So you're emotionally present and you're being honest, you're being respectful. And no matter how you show up, whether it's more passive or more aggressive, you can still be emotionally present and respectful and tell the truth and fight in the way that you are, because that's what we're talking about is being that the authentic you. So how growing up, how did your parents fight? And and what did you learn from that in order to get to where we're talking about in this conversation?
SPEAKER_00I my parents did not fight in front of us at all growing up. And so I did not learn healthy. I just, like I said, I've always been more fiery. So I would feel that frustration and that anger when I would fight, but I never knew the repair side of it. So it felt very I like couldn't control my emotions for a while and would get really worked up and fight, then I didn't know how to repair. So I've lost friendships because of that because there's not that trust, there's not that repair. You you do fight how you see it growing up. And it's putting the work in with each other where a lot of that you have to start being aware of your partner enough to see. I mean, and I would always leave. I remember that in the beginning of a relationship. I'd just be okay, I'm done. And I remember you were like, you're not leaving the house anymore, and we're fighting. Like that isn't going to be a non-negotiable in our relationship. Like when we're fighting, I remember in our condo, me trying to leave one night and you being like, yeah, no, like if this is gonna work, you can be mad, you can go upstairs, but you can't leave the house. And that started breaking the cycle. Just being like, hey, this is like a level of respect. This is a we're not doing this in our marriage anymore. So I think you have to. It's weird. There has to be so much self-awareness to be like, okay, how I did that last time did not work. We've got to do something different next time and committing to it. And it takes a lot of it takes a lot of reps. I mean, we still will, if we're not both checking ourselves, get to that like dirty fighting spot. It's easy to get to. If you're letting stuff build, it feels better. It feels better to let that steam off. So it's constantly checking in with yourself and checking yourself. And you just you have to have fights and you have to repair to put the practice in to start to see, okay, that did not work. Okay, this fight went a little bit better. The repair felt a little bit better. The connection with each other felt a little bit better after that. What did we do here? And you have to talk about the repair with each other. Like, how did we repair there that worked better for our relationship? But you have to get comfortable talking about the fights and be grateful for the repair. If you're talking about the fight and it's pulling you back into that fight, you didn't fully repair.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00If you're able to talk about the fight and be like, okay, kind of like a debrief almost of this went well for our fight, this didn't. I didn't like how this felt for me. I want to do this differently next time. And you're able to just almost like analyze it from a 10,000-foot view, you had true repair with that fight. If you start talking about the fight and you start fighting about the fight again, you've got more work to do because you didn't work through it.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01And I guess to follow up, like, I mean, my parents, I didn't really like the way that they fought either. Like they didn't really have big fights in front of me, but they would they would bicker and fight in front of me. And I think they never would leave the house. So maybe that's where I got that in the beginning of our relationship. But really, what I would say is it was reps and seeing what didn't work and what I did like about the repair and what I didn't like about how the conversation or the conflict went that really led to us starting to build better conflict. And the other part too, when we're talking about reps, we're talking about conflict. That does not have to mean blowout fights. No. Right? So in reps, it can be a really simple conversation of like you're gonna have a conflict, you're gonna have a disagreement, but it can be a really small one. Yeah, you show up respectfully, you be your authentic self and tell the truth, and you follow through with the whole conversation and come to an agreement at the end. That's repair.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And I think always having that pro-relationship in mind. I mean, our counselor called me out on it the other day. She was like, Do you think that was a very pro-relationship thing to say? I was like, probably not.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, probably wasn't.
SPEAKER_00And I do try to ask myself that more now. Like even the other day when we're standing out at the bounds house and Brooklyn's talking to you, and your head was in the literal clouds. When I was like, Jake, she's talking to you. I realized really, probably not the best way to say it to you because I was frustrated, I popped off at you, and then you got defensive instantly and was it. I was like, okay, it was my tone of voice. So I think tone of voice also leads a lot in a conversation.
SPEAKER_01Tone's huge. Yeah. Tone's huge. Okay, to wrap this up, there's I I know we're we're hitting this pretty hard, but the last part is is I know I am, and I know many men are. I don't want to make generalities, but so many men, including me, are the fix-it guys. And that comes, uh, some people are just fix-it guys, some it comes from like, hey, I I lead a business, I lead a team of people, and if a problem comes, I'm gonna solve it. That's just what happens. And way too many women fall into this. And so what shuts a woman down in a conflict or even just a conversation? Because what's crazy about the whole fix it thing is you can have a night, the kids are put to bed, and you have 15 minutes for you two, us two, to connect before we're gonna start getting ready for bed and do chores and whatever. If you bring something about your day to the table, and it's something fairly benign, but something that's on your heart and you want to talk about it, and then I jump in to fix it, that can actually turn into a full-blown fight. Whereas if I would just sit there and listen to what happened in your day and not come up with a solution, just listen and be there and like give you a hug, or be like, wow, that sounded really hard, or that sounded really great. Fight averted. But there's good conflict in there. You're telling me about a conflict that happened, and by me just sitting there and being emotionally present and listening, there's this tiny little repair. And so I guess, do you have anything to say about the fix it guy, or does that really cover it? I just wanted to bring it up because it it plagues so many relationships, and it's so hard, mainly for men in my experience, to just not say the solution. Just shut the fuck up and listen.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it's that. I think it's sometimes I just want to vent, sometimes I just want to say something that was frustrating to me. And when you would always give me a solution, it almost felt like okay, I don't want to listen to this. I'm gonna give you a solution, make it go away. When you've just sat there and listened and been like, that sucks, or dang, like that sounded like a shitty day, that was annoying, whatever. I feel heard, I feel seen. I don't feel like I'm a little like problem that you want to fix and go away. So then we can move on with the day. Like, I don't want a practical answer. Sometimes I just want to tell you how my day was, tell you something that was frustrating. And I just, as you being my husband, best friend, I just want you to be like, you know, that sounds really shitty. I don't want to feel like I'm like a problem you're trying to fix.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I've tried to be better. I know sometimes I'll tell you like, I do not want a solution. And I've tried to preface it with that and be like, I don't want a solution, and then word vomit, whatever it is that's frustrating. And then once I get it off my chest, I'm like, okay, great, move on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's fantastic. Awesome, awesome. All right, so section four, we talk about trust, safety, and staying grounded. So this is an interesting one, and it's kind of a two-part. So, how do you stay grounded in who you are while being fully committed in a marriage? And the second part is what builds or erodes trust, safety, and connection over time. So, if we're talking about the trust and the connection, uh safety, in my opinion, is like emotional consistency. And that means also being very consistent day to day with that emotional connection. Trust is built in small moments, small interactions throughout the day. It's not big, giant events, and that's why, like, you know, there there's this maybe this uh thing that people think about, like when someone makes too much money, a lot of the times that is due to one of the partners in the marriage working really hard. And they work super hard, they're disconnected during the day, they come home late, and they think that one big event, like a big birthday celebration, is gonna show connection that's going to continue that emotional uh connection and holding the relationship together. But what we found is that it's in the small moments, being consistent day-to-day, making the phone call after uh work on your way home or at lunchtime throughout the day just to say hello and I'm thinking about you, kissing before leaving for work. And I know I had to learn this through a lot of trial and error, and I learned a lot of this through couples counseling. You know, we've done couples counseling now for eight years uh off and on, also independent uh individual counseling to supplement that. And that's where I learned a lot of this stuff. The same can be true, there's a two-way street on the trust, though, is that trust can be broken by small by a huge betrayal, or it can be eroded, and the same thing can happen by really small, repeated disconnections. So I guess the question is, is day to day, how do you see us building trust and the best way to do that? And what do you not do day to day in order to break trust and slowly degrade it?
SPEAKER_00I think it's just very simple for me. It's just doing what you say you're going to do. If yeah, it's as simple as that for me. And really what it comes down to me is. I definitely went through a period where it was like I needed you when I got to a place where I chose you instead of needing you. And that was more me showing up for me and being all of McKinsey and showing up to our relationship like that. And I showed up wanting to choose you instead of needing you. The flow of our relationship just started to feel way better.
SPEAKER_01100%. 100%. And that actually leads perfectly into the next piece of this is being grounded in who you are while being fully committed to a marriage. So some people uh end up in a codependent relationship where they think that being in a relationship is essentially being one and being the same person. But I mean, physically, mentally, spiritual, spiritually, energetically, we are we are different people. We're just in a relationship together. And so let's talk about the difference between independence versus codependence versus interdependence. And how does that work in a relationship? And what have we found through counseling and our experience together to be uh the best way for us to stay connected for the long term in our marriage?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, to put it, I guess, just very simple in simple, simple terms. When I stopped letting when you were spiraling, I'm not spiraling. And to me, that's like that's when you know you're codependent. If your partner's spiraling and it causes you to spiral, like you are too entwined with each other, where you're depending on weird needs of each other too much. If you're too independent where it's just, I'll do it myself, I don't need you, that also creates division in a different way. When you get to that sweet spot of, hey, you're spiraling, tell me about it. Now we're in this together and we want to solve this together. I think that that's the sweet spot. And that's what we've learned a lot in counseling is not you don't spiral with each other, you don't try to do stuff polar opposites and just completely independent. It's hearing each other, listening to each other, and then moving forward together. That's when the sweet spot happens.
SPEAKER_01That's amazing. So supporting your partner doesn't mean carrying everything for them. It means just supporting them and being there for them. Amazing. Amazing. Okay, that's beautiful. Uh we're gonna jump on to section five. Hard seasons and what keeps people together. Yeah. Okay, sweet. All right, sweet. So to kind of wrap up what we've talked about here today is is the the main core of what I find in everything we've discussed is that for us everything comes down to communication. And with the right communication, or not even the right communication, communication where we both show up as ourselves and be present, we find connection. This is one reason that one of the non-negotiables for us is that we continue doing couples counseling. It's a way that we're able to show up, like you just talked about and have a third party. It's a way for us to show up 100% present because we don't have our phones. And it's also a way for each of us to get called out when we're not really owning our shit. And we talked about taking ownership and all that. And sometimes as an individual, like it's really hard for us to see. And having someone looking in, it's it's a lot easier for them to call us out. And like you said, if I call you out or you call me out, a lot of the times it doesn't go as well. So that's one thing that really helps us. Um the other part about communication that I find, and I'd love to understand your understanding, your your piece of this, but communication to me is the pathway to intimacy. Because it's the pathway to connection and then to intimacy, um, communication is like the bedrock and the foundation of our relationship. Can you talk a little bit about that?
SPEAKER_00When we're talking, it's great. When we're not talking, it's it's usually not it. It starts to not scare me, but like if we go on a walk together and we have nothing to talk about, it's like okay, the connection's there. Like, we're not interested in each other's days, we're not talking about anything in our relationship, we're not talking about even the kids. When there's silence, it's like ask I always ask myself, like, why is there silence? Am I preoccupied? Am Are we pulling away from each other? So when you're talking, it's good. When you're not talking, it's usually not a good thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I would say, like, when we're not talking, my guess, and I'm speaking for myself here, is that the emotional presence is not there. Like, otherwise, there's something to talk about. We've had crazy days, we got kids, you got exhaustion, you got all kinds of shit going on. Like, there's always something to talk about. And if there isn't anything, it's because we're not actually there in the conversation.
SPEAKER_00So if you were to say just like four key things that are key to our relationship when we know our relationship is on fire, what are those four things?
SPEAKER_01So I would say we each individually are expanding and growing. And for us, most of the time, that's in every division. So, like one is health and fitness. Like, we usually get more connected when each of us individually are feeling good about our body and our health, and we show up more confident. So, uh, spiritually, same thing. Um, business, you know, that confidence leads to usually better business and being on fire in business and finances, all of that stuff. Uh, another one is the emotional presence and communication. So I guess the counseling would be to A of the non-negotiables. Two B is walks. We love our walks and we really try to make it a non-negotiable that we're getting what two walks a week. We would love more. But those are really good pathways for us to communicate and to push each other to communicate, and also great opportunities for us to be fully present because usually there's a lot less distractions. Uh, number three is intimacy. And this comes from the communication, which leads to the connection, which then leads to intimacy. And with intimacy, it's it's really hard with kids and stuff. And it's like for us, we've experimented with all kinds of things like spontaneity.
SPEAKER_00I was like, maybe experiment.
SPEAKER_01She thought I was really gonna go really raw here, huh? Um scheduling out, you know, date nights and intimacy or just being spontaneous about it. We have found that I mean, scheduling date nights obviously is the thing that works best for us. We've even experimented with scheduling intimacy, and we have not really found that sweet spot yet, I will say. But the bedrock of that is the communication about the piece, and then it's like experimenting. And that leads number four, and that's just having fun with it. Because a lot of people would be like, Wow, you're scheduling out sex, is what I just heard from that. And it's like, well, we're trying it, but we're communicating about it, and we can make some fun out of that. Like, we can laugh about that and be like, wow, it's kind of ridiculous that we're trying to schedule something that's really supposed to be like exciting and and and lustful and spontaneous. But then when you actually come down into the to the scheduling aspect, like sometimes it works. So, number four would be just have fun with it. Like when we're communicating, sometimes you just gotta laugh. We fuck shit up all the time. Um, I mean, a great example is parenting. Like, that's one of those things you have no idea how to do it. You they the hospital sends you home and you just figure it out. And so when we're when we're in the thick of it, if we can just sit back and giggle about something that didn't go right, but we're in it together, that's really like where the fun is. And that's what continues the relationship after 10, 15, 20 years. That's what keeps it fun and and and keeps us together and connected.
unknownAwesome.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay. Thank you so much for joining again today. And uh, I'm so excited, I'm sure we will be doing this again. But uh, this was really fun and really eye-opening for me. So thank you for being on today. Thanks for tuning in to the Success Architect. If today's episode helped you lay a stronger foundation for your business or your life, subscribe and share it with someone ready to do the same with theirs. You can follow me, Jake Lewendolph, on social for daily tips on health, wealth, and building success at last. Until next time, keep designing, keep building, and keep leveling.