SPEAKER_00 0:28

What's up, guys? Welcome back to the Success Architect. Today I have a good friend and an employee of mine, Hayden Haft, and super excited to have him here today to talk because Hayden, uh, though he's pretty young, he's been through a lot in the construction industry. And it's fun listening to his story and how he got to momentum. He actually used to work with uh one of my best friends, and uh, so we're gonna talk about his story. We're gonna talk about uh how he started in the field working. Hayden has done estimation, logistics, uh sales leadership, kind of everything. He's uh he's very good at a lot of things, and Hayden has been the right-hand man for uh multiple people in different businesses. And he also has uh year and a half ago, almost two years ago, started his own business with his wife. Uh they have a coffee stand. So Hayden has also uh stepped into a leadership role, which is very cool. And that's why we want to have you here today is to talk about your evolution, what you've learned in your evolution, and uh maybe the growth that you continue to have and and plan on having. So thanks for being here today, man. For sure. Super exciting. Really glad to have you. So uh today, like I said, we're gonna talk about growth, we're gonna talk about lessons from ownership and uh and just evolution within our industry. So give people just uh a quick background. How did you get into construction and uh maybe the super quick version because we'll go into detail of how you got from where you started to momentum?

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Um I actually kind of got into construction on accident. I uh finished college and took some time off that whole summer, sort of spent traveling and hanging out and doing all the fun stuff that people like to do here in Montana and uh sent a bunch of job applications out after that period. Didn't hear much back from anything that I really applied to. And a good buddy of mine, he was working for a concrete company at the time and said, Well, I can get you a job over here. And I was like, Yeah, no, no, thanks on that. That sounds terrible. Yeah, no, it didn't sound like any fun at all. Um, but you know, I drug out and uh spent a lot of my money and needed something pretty quick. And I said, Okay, well, maybe I'll try it out and see if I can land something else and then I can bounce out of there. And yeah, what what year was that? Uh this would have been 2018.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah, so you know, eight years ago. And uh I started on over there. My first day, I didn't know who I was working with, who I was working for, what I was getting paid. Um, they said just bring a hammer with you and uh we'll get you started right away. I didn't know how to read a tape measure, barely knew what a hammer was. I remember the night before that, I was out in my parking lot hitting the hammer against the concrete parking stops to make it look like I had used it before, so I didn't show up. You know, I was like the new guy that didn't know anything. That is awesome. Um, yeah, and it was a small crew. We I think there must have been like eight of us or so, and we went out and put our first job, we stripped forms and loaded them on the truck, and it was kind of fun. We were working outside, it was warm and dusty, and you know, it was different than any job I'd had before that sort of working inside or an office. And um I remember thinking, you know, like this doesn't seem that bad, but it's definitely not something I wanted to do. I kind of looked around at the guys that were working there at the time, and it was a rough bunch, and uh, I was like, I don't want to, you know, be a concrete laborer my whole life. And uh my boss at the time, Chris, I did eventually get to meet him after like the second or third day, found out how I was getting paid, which was great. And uh he had this pretty aggressive growth mindset where he wanted to build this company up. He'd kind of just recently acquired it and wanted to make it a big player, so to speak, and Bozeman and be kind of like a top dog concrete guy. Um I thought that was pretty cool, and part of his idea was that he was gonna need people to kind of scale this from what was like an eight-man operation into something way larger. And he wanted people that he could sort of lean on um and trust to help out with more of the logistics and estimating side of things. He was doing all the sales, all the estimating, and then he would come out to the field and help us work too. So he was doing a lot at the time and um needed somebody to kind of help take some of the stuff off his plate and sort of tapped me for that, asked if that was something I was interested in. I said yes, you know, I have a college degree, I don't want to be working concrete 12 hours a day and going home and drinking course light and starting it all over again like the rest of the guys were doing. Um and so I was in the field for probably about six-ish months, kind of learning how to read plans, how it all went together, how the you know, in the field aspect of that lines up with the office or the plan side of that, so I could learn how to estimate. And uh that experience was super valuable when I sort of made the transition from field to estimation. You know, I'd packed those forms in, I knew what you could build and what you couldn't, what was realistic, what wasn't for access and buildability and all that kind of stuff. So um that sort of transformed into more of an office gig. We expanded, we took on bigger jobs, we hired more guys, and then that role kind of melded into more of like an operations position where I was sort of overseeing everything else. We got some help in the office um with another estimator and kind of trained him up on how to do that. And then by the time I left there, I was kind of overseeing a lot of what was going on. Um and now it was like a 60-person company instead of an eight-person company.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

So yeah, it was massive growth. Really, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

The growth over three-ish, four years was pretty significant.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yeah, that's crazy. Awesome, awesome. You were able to start in the field, start at the very bottom, and and work your way up, and you've been able to see like how does it work with what happens in the office compared to how does it happen in the field, and you you've been able to see like how do you join those two together. For sure. Yeah, and that's and that's one of the main things that I saw in you when I wanted you to come on our team is I knew you had done a lot of that. And the other piece that was very interesting to me is coming from um uh a subcontractor trade and then coming on to a GC company. Uh, that was very enticing to me to have you come on from a subcontractor trade because I thought you would bring different perspective. So tell us a little bit about like what is the difference, what like how do you make that transition and and what is the difference there?

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Yeah, I think perspective is the right word for it. Um, being able to be involved in the field, the office, and then like eventually at certain points, upper management. It's knowing or like learning what the different things that are important to each one of those teams is and where you can find the overlap, and then how to bridge that gap when there is one. The things that are important to the guys in the field rarely align with the things that are important to the people that are in upper management, but it takes both parties to make that system work. And so I think when you get to experience work in the field and then have to translate that to, you know, the office side of things where they're managing a project, and then the people that are managing the project then have to explain to the people in upper management like the health of a project or the company or the guys in the field, being able to sort of not necessarily be a chameleon, but being able to like see the way all those things sort of stitch together and then where they don't, and bridging that gap is important. And when people aren't on the same page, like it definitely creates friction in communication and there's a breakdown, and it's we all want the same thing at the end of the day. We're all trying to make money and move a project forward and get on to the next one. Um, but just the different parts that people are responsible for, I think, end up being the things that they're important, end up being things that are important to them.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Yep. So being uh, you know, starting in the in the labor position and working your way up to management, like how did that change your leadership in doing what you just said, where you were kind of trying to bridge the gap between field and an office? Like what did that give you? Perspective, everything in order to make that successful?

SPEAKER_01 9:26

I think when companies hire a manager, they're often looking for someone who has experience in management. And when you do that, you bring in somebody who doesn't have experience in the kind of work that they end up managing. So the guys that are in the field are managed by somebody who you know has never done the grunt work or done the labor work. And there's nuances that go with both of those. That there's there's nuances that go with both of those that aren't really understood by the other person.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

And I think guys in the field feel like you know, this person's coming in and they don't really get it, and that causes some heartburn for them. And then, you know, these people that are managers that haven't done the work also don't understand why you know they can't just ask certain things of these people. Yeah. Um, it's maybe just not real realistic all the time. Why is it taking so long? Hurry up, right? Yeah, or you know, do it faster. There's certain conditions that exist on site, or there's um constructibility concerns with guys in the field that don't translate well. Um, you know, we experience this all the time with like engineers and architects in that sense. Like we're the subcontractor and we're experiencing these um buildability or constructability issues, and you know, we feel like the architect doesn't get it because they've never built a house before. Right. And us understanding the nuances of what we do, and they are understanding the nuances of what they do, there's not always overlap there, and that causes friction and a little less understanding for what the other person is bringing to the table and what the other person is not feeling supported on or not being supportive on.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Is there like one or a couple um specific items that you feel help fix that or bridge that gap?

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Um I think it's an experience thing, first and foremost. Like if an architect or an engineer got to experience framing for a summer as part of their training or something like that, I think that would change the way that they design structures. Um I don't think it makes a lot of sense to put a framer in front of a computer and have him design a house. Right. Um, but I do think like there's value in consulting each one of the professions and like working through constructability concerns, or you know, like there's things that we can do in the field that save thousands and thousands of dollars just by the way we do it, or you know, sequencing of certain things that an architect or an engineer just might not get and doesn't get baked into their design process because of that. So I think bridging the gap there is either getting dirty and going out to the field and seeing how stuff gets put together, or you know, having some of these trades come in and being consulted during the design process.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Right, absolutely. So what I'm hearing like communication and involving more of the shareholders in in the in the project, right? Early on, which is largely why I wanted you in the pre-construction slot and momentum, because you understand that and your communication style also uh, you know, it it's it's not harsh. It allows people to have um to speak back and say what they need. And so I appreciate that about you. And I mean, I love that your experience lends to increasing that line of communication and allowing everyone to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Yeah, and I think we hire these subcontractors because they are the best at what they do. Yep. Um, and as a GC, we're sort of zoomed out and we look at the big picture of things, and a subcontractor looks at uh they're a more zoomed-in view on like their specific component of it. And I think sometimes they're frustrated that the GC doesn't understand maybe the nuance of what they're doing, and that they there's some frustration there where they feel like the GC doesn't get it, but the GC's job isn't to get it, or isn't to get like the little details of what we hire subcontractors to do, and that's why we hire them. It's because they're experts in their field. Yep. And we can't be expected to know everything. If we did, we would just build a house ourselves. Yep. So I do think that there's value in letting people do their job and lean into their experience and um you know, consulting them on what they think the best way is to do it because that's why we hire them.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

I like that. And so you kind of answered it, but like you've been on both the subcontractor side and the GC side now. What changed in your perspective once you sat in the GC spot?

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Um, I think just having a little bit of appreciation for both sides of it, like I said, like yeah, um, a GC is looking at the big picture overall, and they don't need to necessarily know how every little bit fits together, but as a whole, they're more focused on the process of the house being built itself rather than the little individual slices of it. And I think as a subcontractor, you kind of feel picked on maybe by the GC, or you think the GC, you like, I don't know how this guy can build a house when he doesn't understand a rebar diagram. And you know, a GC doesn't need to know how to do a rebar diagram. I would agree. Um it's kind of like being a kid and you grow up and you think your parents know everything, and your parents are the GC, and then you grow up and you're like, okay, well, they didn't know everything and they're still figuring it out too. Um, I think maybe that's a good example.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

It is.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

I love that. But you know, as a parent, you're just trying to guide this kid or this project to a point where it's saleable or completed or you know, finished for a client, and you know, the kid is asking you all these annoying questions all the whole time. But what they're focused on is just you know being a kid and growing up.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Got it. So little a little compassion on both sides goes a long way. Yeah, and and also having respect for where everyone is an expert. I mean, GCs though, maybe are not an expert in every single piece of building the house, but they're an expert in the logistics, the putting people together. Yeah. Hopefully, in our case, what we strive for is being an expert in communication, right? And so having a little grace for everyone and staying in your lane and like and trusting the people who are the experts to do the work.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Yeah. And it takes a little more tact on the contractor side to communicate with a client who's building a house than it does a subcontractor to a GC. It's very true. I think uh relationship-wise, it's easier for a subcontractor to maybe be a little more blunt or aggressive or um. I mean, you know, like the relationship aspect I think is heavier on the GC side when communicating, because not only do they have to effectively communicate with subs that are, you know, trying to do their job and have their own frustrations, but they're also taking that and then shifting that communication to a client. And it's they're filtering what's happening on a job site through them, through a lens that a client can understand or appreciate or you know, have some grace with when it comes to delays and budget extensions and that kind of thing. So I do think like in that sense, a general contractor has to be a little more flexible in the way they communicate and the way they um show up for a client versus a subcontractor. I agree. I agree.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Okay, so being in uh both the subcontractor spot and the GC spot, uh, we talk a lot about culture here. Have you noticed or or what are the differences in culture between, say, where you were in a subcontractor company versus a GC company? Or were there any?

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Um, yeah, I would say there is. I mean, at the end of the day, everybody wants the same sort of culture for their company. They want to create an environment that people are um excited to come and work in and they're proud of the work they do. And that pride then translates to quality, and guys that are more invested in or responsible to their work produce higher quality and they add value to a company that where they or they add value to a company outside of their defined role. Um, and I think every business owner is chasing that sort of um ideal scenario, and I think the difference between a contractor and a subcontractor is subcontractors are usually more labor-focused and the turnover rate is higher. And I think like profitability is more important to a subcontractor than it maybe is a GC, because a GC is more relationship mindset uh motivated, and they know that good relationships with clients end up making more work and putting more money in their pocket at the end of the day, and I think they're more relationship oriented with their guys, and a lot of the times in a GC setting, their employees are further developed, and like um to get a good PM I think takes a little bit more work than it does a laborer that is efficient. Any job can be taught, and the time it takes for a PM or a super to get good at their job, the energy and time invested in that I think is more significant than a laborer role. And so when you have a guy that's a laborer and the turnover is high, maybe it's not that big a deal because they're doing a simple job that's easy to repeat.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Um, and I think that's why a lot of laborers end up starting their own business or going out to be a subcontractor on their own, is because they can see the value in um maintaining good relationships and the skill part is there, and they can teach other people how to do the job they were taught how to do. Um, and it's the ones that sort of realize that you know it's actually not that hard just to do a little bit extra and have a good relationship and you know take this one step further, and then you can be your own boss or your own subcontractor.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

That's the dream, apparently, right? That's what they say. Yeah, that's what they say for sure. All right. So, I mean, talking about the differences in culture, you've been a part of of both, and and you've been part of multiple subcontractors. So uh culture can either multiply momentum or quietly destroy a company from the inside. Um what have you personally witnessed there? I mean, you were at a company that uh unfortunately went under for various circumstances, but at the end there was a culture shift. And what did you notice? Like, how did that get destroyed? And how on the other side of the coin can culture multiply momentum? Difference between the two?

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Culture isn't one of those things that a company either has or doesn't have, it exists whether you choose to develop it or not. Um you don't choose to develop it, it develops itself, and then you can run into problems. Um interesting.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Yeah, I would agree.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

If you don't if you don't put some intention into developing it or maintaining it, then I think it sort of runs amok, and every person that you hire as you grow either contributes to your culture or preserves it or you know diminishes it. And if you're not sort of weeding the garden and pulling out the people that don't keep the culture intact, then eventually that spreads to the team and you know it sort of eats away at the integrity or the culture or whatever you want to call it that keeps the company cohesive.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Absolutely. So with some work, I mean, yes, you can get a bad apple every now and then, but you could also get someone who without some leadership and and and growth could become a bad apple, but with some leadership, someone who's focusing on culture, they could be an absolute asset. They might find out that, oh, hey, it's actually really fun to be a part of this and do better work, yeah, as opposed to if they were not led, they could end up becoming a bad apple.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

For sure. And you know, as a business owner, I think the onus is on you to be diligent about maintaining that. And if you notice that you do have a bad apple, I mean your choices are to keep it and not do anything with it, and eventually that spreads. Yep. Um, you can fire that person and And just pluck it out, and then you have to go about finding a new person to fill that job and training them up and getting them sort of in line with the culture that's in a company. Or you yeah, you spend some time leading them or educating them. And um I think if you have a strong company culture, your team sort of does that for you. Right. Um if there's good team cohesion, then it's less micromanagement on your part. The culture sort of um keeps itself going in a sense and um makes it easier for makes it easier to sort of weed the garden, so to speak. Sure. Those little annoying things get pulled out by your team or your employees rather than you having to go around and deal with every little thing yourself. Right. If that's the kind of culture that you've instilled.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Absolutely, absolutely. Which that's true leadership, I would say. Yeah. And it's not easy, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

No, it's awkward at times. It takes effort, it takes, you know, admitting that there are issues in a place that you try really hard to keep clean or to like build this amazing company, and not everything is within your control all the time.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Um but I do think people that spend time developing their culture reap the benefits of that and spend less time managing it if they've got good employees that'll do it for them.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

100%. Um, so this is partly with culture, partly just with uh growth. But I mean, you've you've been a part of at least one, if not multiple companies who grew extremely rapidly. And I know you and I have talked about, you've seen how difficult it can be to sustain growth at an extremely rapid rate. Looking back now, what do you think separates healthy growth from growth that eventually starts working against the business?

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Yeah, um, I think growth is something that every business owner is trying to achieve. Um, everybody wants to get bigger and better and do bigger jobs and cooler projects. Um, I think when companies grow too quickly, they're willing to make concessions on the quality of people they hire to fill the spot. And when you do that, um, I think that translates pretty quickly to making concessions on the quality of product you put out. And you know, you can have you can create these systems and put them in place to sort of manage quality. Um, but at the end of the day, the more people you add, the harder it gets to manage. Um the harder quality gets to manage. And I think culture actually plays a big part in that as well. Um, like we said earlier, if you every person you hire either makes your culture better or makes it worse. And if you're hiring good quality people, then a lot of those problems go to the wayside if they're looking out and being diligent for the company, for their coworkers, for their team leads. Having strong systems in place at the end of the day can help mitigate the quality loss when you're expanding. Um, but that only really works if you've got strong buy-in from your team. And strong buy-in from your team comes from having good culture.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Interesting, interesting. Yeah, I love that you said that the quality actually starts with the quality of the people and that evolves into the quality of the product. For sure. Or can degrade from it, of course.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Yeah, and as you grow, I mean you're bringing in, it's easy to shore up for a project by bringing in more guys. Sure. Um, but at a certain point you increase your overhead and then you're creating more work to track down these bigger projects and to kind of keep feeding the beast. And I think it's hard sometimes for companies to sustain that when they make that jump up to the next level and go after these bigger jobs. You know, there's only there's less bigger jobs to go around than there are smaller jobs. Um, and your expenses increase, and you know, sometimes it's tough to have the conversation of scaling back when it's appropriate to do so, or to, you know, say, hey, like we're doing really good with where we're at. Like there's an opportunity to jump up to this level, but what does that mean? And how much you know more are we gonna have to dedicate to this company time or money or energy to like keep that sustainable to keep that sustainable for you and for the company and at the end of the day, um, you know, it's your sanity and your family and other things that you have to consider um instead of you know just going after that big job.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Absolutely. Okay, well, and I'm I'm taking a little bit of a step in in another direction, but you're kind of talking about it. Like you've you've been a part of growing companies, you've kind of worked your way into like being the right-hand man, helping out with building these companies. Um, what are some things that you didn't fully understand about ownership until you recently became an owner yourself?

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Um, when you're an employee, it's a lot easier to compartmentalize work um separate from your personal life. And when you're a business owner, those lines get really easily blurred. Your business is your life. And I think from an employee standpoint, making good decisions for a business seems sort of easy. Um, but when that business is your life, there's other things to consider, and that is you know, your marriage and your sanity and your family, and when you're thinking about growing or whatever it might be, like that all takes money and time and energy. And when you take that and put it into a business, it often gets pulled from other places in your life. Yep. And I think now that I've sort of shifted into that role, I think it was sort of a humbling experience for me to you know be the guy that's always identifying a problem and how to fix it. And it's you know simple when you're in the business. Um, but when it's that business is your life, like there's a lot more things to consider uh when you're making decisions for your business.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

When uh when you're doing exactly what you just said about making making decisions about the business that affect your own life, I think there's a lot of people that judge from the outside. They judge owners from the outside on the decisions they make and because they don't they don't see the inner workings. 100%. Like once you become an owner, what is the reality that most people never see? Like what are what are what are they judging that I wish they wouldn't?

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Yeah. Um, and I think people are judging from a point of lack of information rather than you know just to try to bring somebody down. But I think being a business owner, um, the draw for somebody to be a business owner is that you know they're working a nine to five and they're doing 40 hours a week, and they think that owning their own business gives them the freedom to work less and take time off and be their own boss. Um, but the reality of that is a lot of these people escape their 40-hour a week job and you know now they're working 60 hours a week. Yeah, they're not working, their work doesn't stop at 5 p.m. Yep. Um, they're working, especially in the early stages, all the time. Yep. And there is a lot less safety and security in that than I think most people realize. Like you don't get a check every Friday when you're your own boss. Um, you know, you're like your work doesn't stop at five o'clock on Friday. And uh um these people, I don't know that everybody has the right personality to like endure that kind of lack of consistency or security. And um, you know, you're putting a lot of yourself into a business. Um, my wife and I, we on Valentine's Day this year were at our business fixing a leaky ice machine uh 11 o'clock on a Saturday night, and that was about as romantic as it sounds. Like you give up um parts of your life to become a business owner, and I'm not saying, you know, it's never I'm not saying it's not like rewarding at times, because it definitely is, and uh, but there's sacrifices involved that a lot of people don't see when they're visiting you during the business hours, right? Yeah, they see you um in your life from the hours of nine to five, um, and that's like the glimpse they get of you, and they're like, oh, well, that look looks fun, they're you know having a good time. Um, but then it's the work outside of that that gets you to the point where you can be there from nine to five. It's the you know, the five to nine or whatever later than that um it takes to get there. And I also don't think that you know, working for yourself, people want to be their own boss, but I don't think people like working for themselves as much as they think they would. Um, I think it takes a certain personality to be able to do that, and if you lack discipline, you might not be the best boss. Um and you know, it sounds appealing that you would give yourself the schedule you want, but it's just not realistic to do that all the time.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Yeah, 100% agreed. Uh in business, as as you've stated, there's there's difficult times that come around, and hopefully, you know, it doesn't take the business down or make a massive change like that, but there's always gonna be difficult seasons that come around, right? So what do you think employees need most from leadership when times are difficult?

SPEAKER_01 31:25

I think honesty, um and just being transparent. Nobody likes to be uh honesty, I think, is pretty important. I think it's good to sort of not let everybody freak out when you know times are thin or there's not a lot of work coming up. Um but at the same time, nobody wants to be blindsided. And I think if you've got a good strong team and you're up front, honest with them, and say, hey, like we're you know, looking down a not so good stretch of work at the moment and being honest with them. I think if you've got a strong team, they can band together and help sort of dig in and get you out of that spot. Um, you know, maybe you have them you can lean on them a little bit and say, Hey, like we need to do this job a little cheaper, and we need you to put a couple hours in extra this week to get something pushed through so we can get on to the next thing. Um but I think by being authentic and honest with your team, you get that back from them. And if you're confident in your business and you say, Hey, like things are looking grim, but we're gonna get through it and things are gonna be fine, but they can take that and run with it and internalize it, and then they'll be fine too. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

I like that, I like that a lot. Um second to last question is you own uh the Lucky Penny coffee shop with your wife, and uh doing business with your significant other is is difficult in itself. Um, but how has I guess you've talked a lot about it, but how has the owning this business changed the way you think about leadership and people in general?

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Yeah. Um, I actually like that question a lot because I think from an outsider's perspective, that the most qualified or the most experienced person seems like they're gonna be the best fit or the best leader or the best employee.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

And uh oftentimes it's not, it's the person that comes in and brings good energy and a good vibe, and people are excited to work with and kind of builds that company culture instead of takes from it. Um, those people, I think, tend to be better leaders than the ones that have the most experience. Like in our business, for example, like we we're a coffee shop, but we sell a customer experience. Like, we don't sell coffee. There's every you can go get coffee anywhere in town. The products roughly the same. Um, but we have this sort of cult following because people um love our employees and they just bring really good energy and they're excited to come and chat for you know the five minutes it takes for them to get their coffee. And I think at the end of the day, that's almost more important for them than like the drink they get. Yeah. And so we try to prioritize employees that are really personable and have that good customer service instinct over ones that maybe can pull the best special shot because you know every job can be taught, but there's things like work ethic and personality and like energy, yeah, that you can't teach that to somebody. Um, they either have to work on that themselves or you know, like that's just who they are as a person.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

That's amazing. That's amazing. Well, shameless plug. Head down to the Lucky Penny coffee shop because it is freaking awesome and the customer experience is amazing. Yeah, the coffee also is pretty damn good as well. The girls are great, the coffee's pretty good. It's awesome. Um, all right. So every every episode we try to wrap up with the same question for our guest. What does success mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Um, I think success is sort of a broad term um that gets thrown around a lot. And I think success for each person probably looks drastically different. Does. Looks drastically different. Um, but I think you can kind of break it out and you can compartmentalize it and uh, you know, what does success in business look like or life look like or marriage look like? Um, but at the end of the day, I think success is just sort of looking in the mirror and seeing that the person staring back at you like you're proud of that person and what they're doing. And they might not be crushing it in business that week, and they might, you know, have said something that caused a fight with their wife, or they might be guilty of um being selfish or spending time in spots where they might not have meant to be getting off track. Point is I think like just being proud of the person that you are at the end of the day, um, I think is successful, and then being able to share that person that you're proud of with your coworkers and your wife and your family at the end of the day, um, being a good role model for them as well as yourself.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Wow, incredible answer. I love that, man. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. Really appreciate your insights, also your authenticity and honesty. Like it's it's very refreshing. And so thank you for sharing all of that. Yeah, you bet. Really appreciate it. All right, thanks, man. Thanks for tuning in to the success architect. If today's episode helped you listen, I need to do the same way.