SPEAKER_01 0:03

Welcome to the success architect, where we don't just build homes, we build legacies. I hope to take fluent health, custom home builder and coach. I think I'm a builders and entrepreneurs already to connect their health and their mindset. Let's get to work. All right, guys, what's up? Welcome back to the Success Architect. Uh today I have a phenomenal guest with me. She's a friend of mine and Mackenzie's for a long time. And her name is Joy Vance. She is the managing partner at the agency in Bozeman, one of Montana's premier real estate uh agencies. And Montana State graduate. Joy has built a strong reputation in real estate in Bozeman and Big Sky. And some of the things that I admire the most in and what I why I think her success is here is her leadership, her authenticity, and relationship first approach to business with clients and uh the agents underneath you. So I'm super excited to talk about that today. Um I also want to talk about your, let's see, 18 years in leadership and sales at Victoria's Secrets. That's how you got started, right? Yeah. So we're gonna talk a little bit about that today. Um, branding, communication, customer service skills, how that all transfers to leadership today. One thing I also want to let everyone know, Joy is a former Miss Montana. So we're gonna talk about that a little bit too. Anyway, welcome to the podcast. We're super excited to have you. And uh what I'd love is could you give us just like a little two-minute background um you know, on your professional life, your personal life, how they intertwine, but just give us a little bit about yourself before we jump in.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Merit did not give me that as a pre-homeworking.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

I know. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

Um, well, I want to say I'm super happy to be here, and I've enjoyed watching you grow and grow into yourself. And I know this has always been a dream of yours, and to watch you make it happen, I think is really incredible. I'm super honored to be here. I think it'll be a fun story to talk about. I think 10 years. Well, 2019 is when we bought Gallatin Real Estate. So it would have been 2017, I think. Yeah, that was when we met. Yep. And we went to to lunch.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Was it Revelry? Now it was not Revelry then. Yes. Yep. Yep. So um I think that will be fun to talk about. That's awesome. Um, a little bit, oh two minutes. I I'm I'm let's just have fun.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Um I'm uh tell us about your past. We want we want to hear about it.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Okay. Um, so I I fell into real estate in 2016. Um, prior to that, I was in corporate America. I worked for Victoria's Secret. I held many different roles there. Um and uh in 2014 I left and um went on a journey of self-discovery, which I thought would take six months to a year. And now 12 years later, I'm still on that journey of self-discovery.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

That's good. We can all learn from that because we're all on a on a journey together.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

Yeah, and so and now I am I I got into real estate. I started as an agent. I uh joined you about a year into having my license, and um with your wife bought a company from you. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Forgot about that. Yep. And and then in 2022, I franchised with the agency and I have uh two offices, Bozeman, Big Sky, and um um secretly, I don't know when this will come out, but opening our third office in Whitefish. It'll be August. July 14th, actually, will be the launch day. Amazing. How fun!

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Yeah, very cool, very cool. Thanks for telling us. Yeah, how exciting. Um, okay, that's amazing. Can we start back with like your Victoria's Secret days? What were you doing in corporate America? How did that shape your leadership? And or what was your leadership style then and has it changed?

SPEAKER_03 4:30

Oh, that's a loaded question. I know.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

I specifically am asking that because I know it's a loaded question. It is a loaded question. Go ahead and start and we'll dive in.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Yeah, I, you know, I loved the brand. Um, and I learned a lot about branding, which I know we'll talk about a little later. Um, and so I I started at Victoria's Secret. I had graduated college, I got a degree in microbiology and realized quickly I didn't want to be in the medical field. That's yeah, I have two degrees, microbiology and religious studies. That tells you a little bit about how my mind works. Okay. Um, and I I had worked retail in college and put myself through school. And I had an opportunity once I had worked in a lab in a hospital, realized I didn't want to work around sick people. I was not mentally mature enough to handle that. And so I kind of fell into this position at Victoria's Secret. Um, and it was it created me professionally. I truly believe that. I I learned a lot about leadership, I learned a lot about building teams, I learned a lot about branding, I learned a lot about reputation. Um and I loved almost every minute of it. And I got to travel all over the world. I got to go to amazing places and I got to be, I mean, I got to wear the fishnet hose.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Even even to my son's soccer game, I would show up in the fishnet hose.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

They were popular back then. And um, and then I about three, so I quit in 2014. But probably for three years before that, I was really struggling. I wasn't happy and I just didn't know why. And I felt this urge to do something else. I felt a pull to do something else, but I really had no idea what it was. And so instead, I I sat on the fence for a very long time and um thought, what am I, you know, I'm I have this amazing career, I make this amazing money. Like, what am I thinking? And I was really into wellness. I I was a yogi. I did a lot of yoga. I I was very into the fishnet hose. And not in the fishnet hose, but that would have been fine. Um, and so I thought, you know, maybe I need to kind of switch gears. I I felt like I was at the top of my leadership game. I I felt like I was great at what I did. And I thought, why am I doing this for someone else? I should be doing this for myself.

SPEAKER_04 7:09

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

And so I talked to a lot of people and said, here's what I'm thinking. And nobody supported me. Every they I call them naysayers, and they all said, What do you know? Like you love what you're doing. They you, you're, you have money, you have success, you have the lake house, you have the jet skis. I had all this stuff, and my life looked a certain way. And and I was also the matriarch. I made the money. And so my son was like, What do you mean? You know, I want a car when I'm 16, you know, or my partner at the time, I was kind of the financial provider. And so I got a lot of no's. And I did that for about a year, and finally I decided to just quit and not tell anybody. And so I gave my notice and I gave a six-month notice, and I agreed to train my replacement. And during that entire time, I didn't tell one person that I had quit my job. Wow. And I remember the first time I told my partner at the time, and I've been with him for 17 years, um, I told him in Costco. And I was a week left of the job, and I said, just so you know, I quit my job. And whoa, and then I went on, and then I tried to find myself, and it never worked. And I I went, I studied yoga, I went to ashrams, I traveled, I was in the Bahamas, I went and like did communal work. I mean, I did all different kinds of things. And two years later, all I did was just spend a tremendous amount of money and never found what I was looking for. Um, and then real estate found me. And that was actually what my partner at the time, he had been a real estate broker for 20 years. So I was always around it. Um, and he said, Joy, it's been two years, you're not working, you're bored, you're losing your mind, you have no purpose. Why don't you get your license? I think you'd be good at this and you can help me out. Okay. Okay. Um, and so that's how I got into real estate.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Got it.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

Um, and I went a little very far away from talking about leadership.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

So no, that's fantastic. So um when you say you're trying to find yourself, like what does that mean to you? Because a lot of people probably get into this this funk or or this trying to find their purpose. Like, like when you say I was trying to find myself, can you define what that meant to you?

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Yeah. Well, at the time, what I thought that meant was let me back up. I think as entrepreneurs, we often the people who become entrepreneurs often grow up with chaotic childhoods, right? You know, and and so we we seek validation through our performance. So for me, when I say trying to find myself, I was trying to find my purpose, but my purpose was always work. I didn't, I didn't know anything other than perform, make money because I grew up poor, so be secure. So that was what was always the driving force. So when I gave up my identity, which my identity was an executive at Victoria's Secret, I had to remove my ego. I I remember the day that I stopped playing first class because I used to fly first class all the time, and then I lost my status. And I literally, literally the day I lost my status, I was next to the lavatory. I swear to God, it was like the it was the most insane. I was like, oh my God, I'm going backwards alive. I remember when people say it is, and I did for several years. And and and or someone saying, What do you do? And I wasn't working. And I was like, I I didn't know what to say, what I did. I so I was trying to find my work purpose. And I I I think if you're trying to find something, you won't. You're you're looking out of desperation. When I kind of gave up, it ended up finding me. And I didn't think it was going to be real estate. I did not like real estate when I first got into it, and I hope we talk about that as well.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

Um, but now when I say find my purpose, I think that what I appreciate about entrepreneurship is that it is a journey of self-discovery. I have never been challenged so hard as a human being. Who am I? How much do I believe in myself? How how clear are my values? How clear are my boundaries? What am I willing to sacrifice? Like I have learned so much about me, joy as a person through being an entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Amazing. Amazing. Okay. I love that answer. Nice job. Thank you. Uh so going into real estate, starting there. You said you wanted to talk about the identity piece of real estate, not liking it at the beginning. Tell us a little bit about how you got started. What did that feel like? Yeah and what was your progression?

SPEAKER_03 12:02

Yeah. I came from a team environment. I came from an environment where everyone wants to see each other win. And when I first got into real estate, I rem well, first, again, I had ego. My ego was just, you know, getting punched down.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

No more first class.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

No, no more first class, no more title, no more. I mean, I started and I was like, you know, I look at agents' numbers now and go, oh, you're new. There's no ego amendment.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

But when you found yourself and get rid of the ego, Joy.

SPEAKER_03 12:37

I mean, it comes back.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

It comes back.

SPEAKER_03 12:40

It comes back when it comes to you. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm much more humble now. Um you're distracting me, Jay. Come on. Um okay, so so when I first started, I remember you know, picking up with the phone, people being rude, you know, and being and not caring who are, you know, knowing that you don't know what you're talking about. And and I I remember saying I I never want to treat anyone that way.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

I never want other a other agents. Other agents. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

So I think a lack of teamwork, a lack of collaboration, a la um, I think there's there's there's no rules. And I was used to corporate environments where there were rules. I mean, we had human resource departments, you know? For sure. Um, and so I just thought, yeah, this, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not a salesperson. I never considered myself a salesperson. So I didn't like feeling like a salesperson. I didn't like the reputation that real estate agents had, that they're not trustworthy, that they're like car salesmen. And I didn't like the way that the community, at least in my initial experience, I didn't like the way that the community treated one another. It's kind of an all-out for them mentality. But that is when you grow, is when you see opportunities. And so then I realized wow, there is so much opportunity to do this different, to put the customer first, coming from a customer service background, right? Like actually caring about the customer. I have two rules in my office. How do we delight the client and how do we protect the client?

SPEAKER_04 14:15

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

And so for me, I think I saw opportunity. And because of that, that is what led me to now love, love what I do, love the industry. I I will I never see myself not somehow being tied into real estate, whether that's development or I I don't know what where the future will take me.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

It's a bright future, it's gonna be awesome. It's gonna be great. Okay, so 20 years left of it. Um some hardship and seeing opportunities in real estate. Uh, my question for you is you came from a corporate background working with W-2 team members, and there was clear structure, clear leadership, and you guys had rules. You built teams under that environment. You now saw an opportunity where things were lacking. You now build teams in an environment where you, I assume most people. They don't have to listen to anything I have to say. They don't have to listen to shit.

SPEAKER_04 15:17

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

So, number one, how do you get them to listen? Number two, how do you create a team environment when everybody's a 1099 who only only gets to eat what they kill?

SPEAKER_03 15:33

This um this has been a a real challenge for me. Um, again, this has been a journey of self-discovery. And I would say I felt, I believe I was a much better corporate leader than I am a business owner leading people.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Um, and and and that's because I'm an emotional person, right? Like I don't know if it's because I'm female, I don't know if it's because of how old I am. I don't know what causes. But I I care what people think, and I care that that people like me. And for some reason at Victoria's Secret, I didn't. I it was not my rules, right? They were not the rules I created. I was I was put there to do a job, and I took doing that job very seriously, and so I could disconnect me as a person from the job that I was doing. Interesting. In my new role, I am the owner, I am the decision maker, I am the rule maker, I am the person who who the buck stops here. And I have made decisions that people don't agree with. I've I've hurt people not meaning to. I've hired people that were wrong for the business, and then I've kept them for way too long because of fear. Like I've led out of fear. I didn't lead out of fear when I was at Victoria's Secret, but I've definitely found myself leading out of fear as an entrepreneur because it's my money, it's my reputation. Like I have a like my reputation matters. I care how I treat people, I care how people feel about me. And I've had to have my face slapped quite a few times, you know, to like, who do you want to be, Joy? Like, who do you want to be? And how do you want to do this? So I'm figuring those things out. I think what I've learned is listen to your intuition. And if you have a feeling that someone's not the right fit, either don't hire them or cut it as quickly as you can.

SPEAKER_04 17:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Um, toxicity is a real thing and energy. I'm a I'm an energy person. I love positive energy. I love to have fun, as you know, and I'm sure the laughs will start coming. Just get me on a roll. I'm ready. Um, and so I I don't want to take myself too seriously. I admit my mistakes. I am not afraid to say I fucked up and I'll be the first to do it. And so if there's people around me who lack gratitude or lack the ability to say, I have equal part of this, cut them loose and cut them loose quickly. But it's still hard for me because I like people. I always see the best in people. Always see the best. I will find any person I there's I think there's one person in my entire life that I can remember. I met them and went, no, I don't like you. But for the most, I meet people who are like, oh my God, you're amazing. And and I I see light and beauty. And unfortunately, that doesn't mean that you necessarily are the right fit in working together.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

I apologize, I'm using my insider knowledge a little bit with you, but I know you say a lot of times if something happens that you know someone's intent is good, yeah, and you look at that first. Yeah, there's good and bad with that. Yeah. So can you like reflect on that and help us understand looking at intent, but also looking at impact of how people act and actions that come from what people do?

SPEAKER_03 19:20

Yeah. I um I believe that everyone I mean, I do believe there's evil in the world, but ultimately I believe everyone inherently is good. And I have been in interactions, like I've had people on my team where I I would watch them lie and I could rationalize why they would do it. I would say, well, you know, they're insecure about their upbringing, so they're making up, they're they're making themselves more grand than they really are. And I can relate to feeling insecure about things, or I can relate to wanting to put a mask on. I can relate, I have imposter syndrome, like I can relate to all of those things. And so I've rationalized people's bad behavior before. Um intent matters, and I do think that there is positive intent, and then I think there's, you know, and people make mistakes, sure. And we all fuck up, we've all hurt someone's feelings, we've all done something wrong, we've all messed up on a deal, you know, we've all disappointed a client. But but then there's there's when people don't have the best interest for you. And I do think when you're building something, you're building a brand, or you're building, I don't want to be a big team. I want to be a small, mighty, powerful, familial team, right? Like I and in order to do that, every single, you know, we we need to all be supporting and encouraging and wanting the best for others, but also being a little flexible. I feel I I struggle sometimes because everyone's very good at because I'm open to it, tell me what I do wrong.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Please tell me how you're inviting it. Please tell me how I can be better. But often in those conversations, I won't hear what they could do better. And and I'm learning that the people I want around me, the people with a growth mindset, they're talking about how they can be better too.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

100%. Yeah. Okay, so taking what you're talking about with intent, like inherently we believe most people are good. Like you said, there's evil in the world, but if we go into the with that frame, um, we can see the good in people. But you also talked about that you have learned the hard way, but essentially fire quickly within reason. Yeah. So how do you take that mindset of understanding intent and understanding people and Authentically looking at yourself going, Hey, you know, I might have done the same thing, but also making the decision to say that's stuck that doesn't work for this team. Yeah. Um and number one, how have you grown to see that? Because I know I know you do that. I know you have to do that. You've grown to figure that out. And then what are the actions you take to write that scenario and either let that person go or or fix the situation and have a hard conversation with them?

SPEAKER_03 22:30

Yeah. Well, I think ultimately the goal would be to hire right.

unknown 22:34

Agree.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

You know, so hire slow, right? Hire slow. Yeah. I I I agree with that. And I've done that, I've changed that. Like I went through two assistants before my now third. Um, both of the assistants I had before stayed with me as agents, but we can talk about what makes can make me difficult to work with. I hear chuckling in your background.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

That's you're difficult.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

The devil's in the details. I didn't know that. The devil is in the details. I'm wearing red for a reason.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

No. Um, so so, but my third assistant, I finally I figured it out. So they each stayed with me a year in the role. And then by the time I got to the third, I went, oh, okay, here's what I'm gonna do different. And I took three months and I interviewed several people. Um, and I put anything from personality tests to having them do activities and assignments as if they would work with me. I did multiple interviews, and I knew that I didn't want to hire someone who actually wanted to be an agent because what would happen is I would hire these people who were like, I wanted to you.

SPEAKER_04 23:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

And then as soon as they're like learning, they oh, I've learned contracts, I know her system, I know her structure, I'm gonna go do it on my own now.

SPEAKER_04 23:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

So this time I hired someone who has no interest in being in real estate. She's purely operational, and she's been with me almost a year. She's fantastic. I'm so grateful for her. And so I learned.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 24:03

Um I I I I don't remember your original question.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

I mean, on occasion, no, I mean, it was a long question. It's a long question. So you're saying uh higher slow, and it's I mean, uh luckily, as entrepreneurs, as anybody, like we should continue learning, right? Continue learning and growing. And in the entrepreneurial wor world, we're forced to do that, otherwise you're gonna crash and burn, right? So with people and knowing yourself and looking at people in that good light, you've learned how to hire slow, build the team um on the front end. But my question for you, because I'm you're going somewhere. I know you're going somewhere. I want to know. When you when you screw up and you have to have those hard conversations.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Well, I've got three of them in the room right now.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

I know it happens. It happens.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Um okay, you want to what do you want me to talk about? How I screw up or how I fix screw ups, or what do you want when we're talking about screwing drink?

SPEAKER_04 25:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Yeah, I was gonna say, here we go. Here we go.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

It took me only 20 minutes, right? We're 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Um spit it out, buddy. Well, intent is one thing. Yeah. And so when you find that maybe someone has good intent, but the actions are wrong, how long do you let that go on? Because that's part of team building and that's part of leading. And I know you do that, but I feel like you're skirting the question and focusing on the good. What about the bad side of that?

SPEAKER_03 25:51

What about I I don't think I've figured it out. I I'm still learning. I I have taken a step back.

SPEAKER_04 25:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

You know, you you go through cycles. I mean, Mackenzie and I went through this. It's like, who do we hire? You know, what's this team going to be made of? Do we hire new agents? Do we not hire new agents? At one point I had this idea I wanted only 10 million and above producers, and but I don't want ego. And, you know, I it doesn't exist. It doesn't, I mean, they're out there, they're out there, but it's very rare. And and I've hired people that I enjoy being around because I'm, you know, at this point in my career, this is my probably my I will have one more phase, I believe, in recreating myself. But this is my second or third career. And and so I now know I want to work with people I like and have fun with and make me laugh and can take my humor and don't get offended and don't want to call HR on me. You know, that's what I want. No HR for reasons. No HR department. Absolutely. I can say fuck, I can be inappropriate, I can say politically incorrect things, and no one's calling me in. So those are important things to me, but I I have I have made more mistakes than I have had successes, I believe. But that's how you learn. And so now I'm just really slowing down. I don't want to chase, I want to attract.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

And so I gotta work on my mindset. I've got to work on my own confidence in what I value, what my boundaries are, what I believe in. And the more I get clear, I will attract the right tribe. I will attract the right people. So I'm going very slow right now. I mean, I am expanding in whitefish. I I I'm bringing on two new agents, but I I I think I'm trusting my intuition a little bit better. And I like, I like them and I like what they have to offer. And I don't care if they're new. To me, it's more about mindset. Are you grateful? Number one. If you're lacking gratitude, stay the fuck away from me.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

I love that. It's good. But true. Yeah, yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

Okay, and then and then my mess ups. Do we want to talk a little bit about my mess ups?

SPEAKER_01 28:07

No, I think you answered the question. We can if you have some. Like, everyone wants to hear about like, yeah, what is real life? Yeah, real life. Like, sure.

SPEAKER_03 28:14

If you have any on the top of your mind, like well, there was a question about um for all the questions you haven't asked me that were on that list.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Um, there was a I told you I was gonna deviate. You did. I have this open, but I haven't leaved it. You haven't done any of that. I haven't.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Um, but there was one about like my hardest season and kind of what I learned about leadership. And so I I thought about that one this morning, and I think it's in in a way, it's all been hard.

SPEAKER_04 28:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

You know, there are days where you're feeling like you're on a high and life is good, and you're like, I'm kicking ass. And then the next day something decides to like slap you in the face and humble you and and bring you to your knees. I mean, recently I'm pretty strong. And recently, I mean, there was a time where I went, okay, what am I doing? Like, why am I doing this? This is hard and horrible, and I don't know if I have what it takes. And and so now I forgot where I was going. That doesn't happen very often. My brain fog has gone away since I did biohacks.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Part of season. And we're gonna be able to do that. Part of season, yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

So there, they it's always hard, I feel. But there have been monumental things that have happened in my 10 years in real estate, one of them being my business relationship and partnership with Mackenzie. And I think even before that, was even making the decision, which to this day, and I she's behind us right now, to this day. What were we thinking? Who were we?

SPEAKER_04 29:52

That's where ego comes in.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

It's like we need these new agents, neither one of us were brokers at the time.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

We're like, let's run a real estate brokerage, let's do it. Um, but thank God. And I think that's such a beautiful thing to have courage and bravery and to take risks.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

You guys crushed it too. It's freaking awesome.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

But that was a learning, right? Like you you go, and there were many times where her and I were going, what were we thinking? What are we doing? Yeah. Um, what made us think that we could do that? But I think that's where you gain self-confidence is in taking risks. Then it was about building a partnership and having and then and going separate ways. And that was also a huge learning.

SPEAKER_04 30:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:37

Um, everything from not having an exit plan. Yeah. Like I our relationship had always been strong, and then going through a divorce, which is kind of like it's going like it through a divorce. It was rough because I was part of it too.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

And it was I was like in the background watching, and it was no fun.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

I'm sure I'm so sorry. You don't have to be sorry. It was just it was it was how everything went. You and you learn, right? Like, and and so now, you know, I when people talk about partnership, I always say, always have an exit plan. Talk about the difficult things before they become difficult. Because at some time it doesn't need to be difficult. It's sometimes it's just like, I mean, I'm gonna get to a point where I want to retire or I want to do something. I don't know how much work I want to continue to do. And so if I bring partners in, yeah, there is going to be a time where that partnership will end. And if you don't have it defined, that's why I think maybe prenups are probably really good. You know, it's like have it defined. Like, hey, if one of us wants to go a different direction, how does that look like? And I think that would have solved a lot of the heartache and and the and the the relationship toll that it it took on us. But I think on the again, the positive is that after some time and reflection and and and it's all about grow, it's all about self-discovery. I keep saying the same thing. It's about self-discovery. Mackenzie went out and discovered more things about herself and she challenged herself and she grew and she tried new things and she's learning about who she is. I did the same. I was like, what am I capable of? What can I do? Can I do this by myself?

SPEAKER_02 32:13

Mackenzie, how do you do taxes?

SPEAKER_03 32:18

I haven't, I she used to do the the the bat, and she would never tell me all the things that she did. You know, she just did them, which is it's great, it's a great marriage.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Until you have to give it a chance.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

And then you don't have it, and you're like, uh, oh, we're supposed to balance our books every month. What?

SPEAKER_03 32:38

Um so yeah, so so uh my accountant, who now is no longer my accountant, um, hated me for after Mackenzie left.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

Not our accountant either.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

Yeah, he was Yep. No, no name shall be named. Yeah, for sure. Um so, so, and then, and I and I think that was probably my second hard learning. And then my third has been team, team stuff. Um, and just, you know, do I want to lead? Um, do and who do I want to lead? Yep. Like I like leading. I I actually love leading. Yeah, really. But I love leading. I love leading certain people.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

That's fair. That's fair.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

I don't like leading people who, you know, care about a mental health day. I mean, I that sounds bad. I and maybe that's a mindset I'm saying, because I do care about mental health. But I, you know, I'm a I'm a hard driver. I'm I'm I'm a competitor. I'm I'm I won't I it's not that I want to win. I want to be the best version of myself.

SPEAKER_04 33:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

And I don't do well around people who are okay being mediocre.

SPEAKER_04 33:49

Yeah. No.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

And and they don't like me either. And that's some of the buck-ups I have, right? It's just like I drive, yep, and I and I'm demanding. And um, but I'm demanding on myself, and I won't do anything, I won't ask anyone to do anything I'm not willing to do. So I thrive around people who are go-getters. I thrive around people who are self-motivated, I thrive around people who are wanting to master their craft, who who want to bring a new like when the tide rises, all boats rise. 100%. And so I like being around those kind of people. If I'm around people who I'm having to do this, yeah, it sucks the energy out of me. And then I get emotional and then I I cry with my dog out.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

I mean, that's fair. That's a good place to do it. Yeah. Um, okay, so you want people to join the team who have a growth mindset. What do you do to build your mindset, build your growth, and and thus, of course, lead by example in doing so? Like, what are the things that have made a difference for you in your life?

SPEAKER_03 34:52

Yeah. If you would have asked me this three months ago, I would have had a very different answer. I would have talked about leadership books and you know, and and surrounding yourself with uh other great leaders and all of those things are real. But I think probably what I am finding more powerful now is meditation. I is sitting in silence about that, um, is calming my nervous system, um, is focusing on gratitude and real gratitude, not the bullshit gratitude that we're taught like I'm grateful for these nice things, or like actually feeling gratitude um for what for what I have now. Um I am getting stronger. I mean, confidence is is is the key. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

And amazing what it is, what it does to change.

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Yep. And so if you if if you lack confidence, which I have, I do. I mean, it's you know, it's it's a roller coaster. Um I am not the best version of myself. I can't be the best leader, I can't be clear, I can't be concise, I can't act with grace. And so for me, actually giving more time to myself, and this is a nine and a half year journey to have said this, um, I I'm finding is what I want to do more of. I work less, spend more time getting clearer and stronger myself, and then I can deliver at my best.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

And so you find that doing those things and building your growth mindset, the main thing that's coming out of that, I heard, is confidence, which then turns you into a better leader.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

I think, I think self-respect, I think confidence, I think clarity of mind. Um I've one of the compliments I I I I can be a shit, but but the positive things. We all know that. Yeah, but but the positive things, Ralphie, I don't want to hear comments in the background, um, is that I I always try to act in grace. I and I think that that is is an important skill as a leader, um, is staying clear and be decisive and not act in emotion. And I'm an emotional person. And so that's something I've had to, I'm learning. I'm by no means am I mastering it, but I'm I'm working on mastering my emotion and being clear because in business, I I can take a step back, I can breathe, I can and then get clear of really what I want and make a decisive action. The more I do that, the the better my business is. Now, if I could apply that to all aspects of my life, I'd be doing much better.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

We're gonna have to talk about that today. That's we can do a next podcast on that one.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

We're gonna talk about my relationship?

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Yes, we can do that. So awesome. Um, okay, so and I don't want to beat a dead horse, but one thing that changed my life in the past 12 to 18 months.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

I'm gonna turn this around in a little bit. I'll do that. Okay. So uh has anyone done that yet to you? A little, not too much. No.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

I know. This is good. Yeah, this is good. I have a long list of questions I haven't asked you yet. I know.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

Well, you're because you're really focused on something and you're you're and and I'm just just tell me what you want me to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

No, you've already got it. So um, okay, so but I do want to talk about confidence because you mentioned that. So something that changed immensely for me in the past 18 months was an understanding of confidence.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Actually, that's that's it.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Like, what's crazy is when I started working on my physical being more like fitness was always uh a piece of my life. You just wanted to look hot. I enjoy that. Thank you very much. I don't blame you. But I uh I found that it helped my mental clarity. Um, but also like for me, it just so happened if we're being. I have a wife, thank you very much. When I want to find her and she looks at me, that's what does it for me, Joy.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Whatever you lit up when I said your butt's getting round.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Maybe a little, maybe a little.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

And I did it in front of your wife. Yeah, fair enough. And then she went, yes, it is and I get to slap that at night. So awesome.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

I love how far she takes it. Thank you. This is so great. Um, okay, so but I mean, yes, bigger butt, rounder butt all equates to this. But physically becoming more fit actually helped change my my mindset and bring me more confidence, which then brought me more leadership in business with my conversations. And it was like this cycle of of growth.

SPEAKER_04 39:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

And so you talked about uh the new things that you were doing to build your confidence. And I guess I just, you know, what I want from these podcasts, I want our listeners to take away something that they can they can do to grow their life. So for me, um, just not my whole life, but like the last uh 12, maybe 18 months, being more physically fit, gaining more muscle, like the better I feel physically, the more confident the better leader I became. And so you talked about um you didn't talk about more balance, which uh, you know, I'm not really a big fan of the word balance. You talked about um dividing your time appropriately. Is that what is bringing you more confidence? And is there anything else that you could help listeners say, hey, this is what I did maybe would work for you?

SPEAKER_03 40:47

Yeah, I do think that people underestimate the power of being strong, physically strong. Um, I have always been into health and wellness, but I think that I was motivated for the wrong reasons in my 20s and 30s. I was obsessive. Again, it can't goes back to childhood trauma, needing to be perfect, needing feeling I needed to be perfect for people to love me. And so I was a lot like your wife, where it was like we're measuring if we have a little tiny dimple on our leg and we're freaking out that we're fat. And I mean, I used to put, I know she does it. I've done it, I know she's her and I are so the same.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Nothing like bringing out the secrets.

SPEAKER_03 41:33

I know, so but it it but it's real, and I think we're a lot of women and men are hard on themselves, but for the wrong reasons. That's out of a fear. Yeah, and and so then I rebelled almost against it, and I got so consumed with work that for the first time in my life, I was in my 40s and I went, fuck it. I'm I don't, I don't, I don't do the superficial thing. It wasn't about superficial. I just put so much pressure on myself to look perfect, yeah. And it didn't get me love, it didn't get me any, it didn't get me anything but stress on myself. And so I I went away from it and I let myself like I wasn't taking care of myself. I wasn't taking care of myself with the way I ate and things that had been my habits my whole life. I just said, I I I just put no energy and then I lost energy, and then I was tired, and then I had brain fog, and then and so in between now having a heart issue and just realizing that I had lost myself. Again, we go through these cycles and I had lost that part of myself. And now I I'm doing it for the right reasons. I'm doing it because I love my life and I want to live a beautiful life and a healthy life. I like we take for granted when we feel good. When you feel like shit, you're like, oh, to just have yesterday back. Yeah, to just feel neutral. To feel neutral or feel nothing, like when you're in pain or when things hurt. And and so I have made a decision to really take my health back into my control, which it is in our control. And I made every excuse. Mackenzie would try to get me to go and work out at six in the morning, and I'm like, I am not a morning bar. I don't want to. I mean, it's like I had every excuse in the world. And sometimes, you know, I hate what we're very hard on ourselves to like make a change of behavior. I want to be fit or I want to be a hobby, I want to be great at golf. And then we beat ourselves up when we when we don't stick to the plan or we're not disciplined enough. Discipline's a hard word and it's a hard thing because there's so many layers behind it. It took one day, one day when you go to the doctor and the doctor says, Yeah, you got a problem. You have a problem with your heart. Then I went, I have all the time in the world to get to the gym. I have all the time in the world to meal prep. I have all the time in the world. Like If I don't do this now. And so it changed me overnight. And I will tell you, I am feeling amazing. I feel amazing at work. And tomorrow I will probably cry again and I will have another bad day. But right now, my strength, my physical strength, my body being healthy again makes me feel more confident to take on all of the other challenges in the world. I'm like, what other? No one shall name my age. Person this age.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

You paid someone to get rid of that off the internet, right? Your age.

SPEAKER_03 44:32

I'm pretty sure everyone can see it. I'm old. I'm officially, I'm old.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

Nobody actually knows that though.

SPEAKER_03 44:38

Yeah, no, no, no. It's the age of the mindset.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

I don't know if I believe that, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

That's awesome. That's awesome. Um yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_03 44:50

So tell me, so tell me about what your what is what is um inspiring you to do this podcast?

SPEAKER_01 45:01

Oh, that's a good question. You also have first hand experience on that, don't you? A little bit. I've been have I been talking about this podcast since we met almost, maybe a couple years after.

SPEAKER_03 45:12

You talk a lot. So you have a lot of business ideas, but yes, this has always been a passion of yours. Yes, that's true. Um you're a serial entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Yeah, yeah. They they don't all make money though, so I don't really consider it serial entrepreneurship unless they make money.

SPEAKER_03 45:28

You're so hard on yourself, Jake. We'll talk about that in therapy next week.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

I talk about that every day. I have two therapists.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

Um I like that you're taking it seriously, you know. 100%. Good.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Um, so specifically the podcast, yeah, I've been talking about it for a long time. The reason I wanted to get into it is because 2018, I've I I haven't done an episode specifically on the Warrior program, but that's what that was a turning point for me. I've talked a little bit about it in the past. Um, that was 2018. So that was a huge turning point for me in in making real changes in my life, uh, seeing where I was falling short in every dimension, my my relationship with my wife, my physical being, my leadership and business. And after that, I instantly wanted to be a coach after that. And then through talking to my wife a lot and doing some self-reflection, I was like, I don't know what the hell I'm gonna coach on. Like, I need more coaching, I need more work, I need all of this. So I put it off for a long time. And uh there's a lot of successful people out there that would be like, well, yeah, you just like jump in and you do it, right? And that's usually my mindset, but coaching doing it scared me. It totally scared me. And it was that also if I didn't have something really, really great to tell people or to help people with, I didn't want to put it out there because coaching, podcasts, like growth with people is is something that's pretty sacred.

SPEAKER_03 47:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

Are you gonna cry? I mean I might. You are the um I I don't like that any random person just puts themselves out there and says I'm a coach. And that's what I would have done if I had jumped right into it. I'd have been like, oh yeah, I can teach like these three things and it's gonna change your life. And I had zero experience. So I just I take it very seriously when people are out looking for help from from others. And uh I want I want it to actually get something. So this podcast maybe I'm early, maybe I'm late, I'm not really sure. I hope that the listeners get something from it. But this is like my first go at doing what I can to change other people's lives.

SPEAKER_03 48:02

Oh, we're so going here. I love this. I love this. Um, I think that the the beauty is in the journey, and so your timing is just right.

SPEAKER_04 48:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 48:14

Right. And so, and I love that you're sharing. I I do think that you were scared and you think that you have to know all the answers to get started. And it's the opposite. Yeah, everyone is feeling the same way, is they're insecure. And how do I start? And how do I get started? And you just start. I one of your questions was about social media, and I I was I was going to say, I do believe it's like the necessary evil and it it will continue to be important. But with AI and what's happening right now in the globe is that people are looking for authenticity more than anything because we don't know what's fake and what's real anymore. And so being real and talking about the suck is what will help people. I I think people look at you and Mackenzie and think you're too fucking perfect. And I'm sure you guys feel it, right? I don't I'm sure you guys feel like you're beautiful, you're good looking, you're fit, you have this amazing house, and you drive these beautiful cars, and you you go on these amazing vacations, and they're like we actually haven't traveled in like a year and a half.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

We're just talking about that on date night last night. So vacations have really a year and a half, yeah. We went crazy in like 2024. We went on I don't know, five like really cool vacations. Uh huh. And then we haven't traveled in the last year and a half.

SPEAKER_03 49:32

So okay, we gotta maybe gotta make time for that. Yeah, we'll work on that. We'll work on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

Um, but that I mean that I hate talking about seasons and chapters, but realistically there are seasons and chapters in life, right? And uh, and I would say the last year and a half has been a bit of a harder one for us.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

So um for many reasons.

SPEAKER_03 49:52

Yeah, making it's unfortunately making you stronger, but yeah, yeah. Um, so I when I was doing yoga training, um, which is a coach, right? That could have been considered a coaching position. Um, I remember someone saying to me that the people who need, you know, like the people who need to heal heal people. So why did you think you needed coaching? What what what were you?

SPEAKER_01 50:20

Yeah, why did I need healing basically?

SPEAKER_03 50:22

Yeah, why did you need healing?

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Yeah, the um I didn't know what I wanted, so it was a journey of like finding myself too. But I didn't know what that meant. That's why I asked you. Because like I don't actually really know what that means either. And after I did Warrior, I think I started getting this tattoo maybe a year later. And my whole life since I was like 16, I was very destination focused. I didn't like I think I've talked about on podcasts, I've talked about social media having like a a wants list and specifically a material wants list because that changes your unconscious to start understanding that it's okay to want things and to strive for things. But when I was 16, like I had a solid ass want list.

SPEAKER_03 51:21

I think you still have a solid ass want list. Oh, I do.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

It's great. I can show you. So it's pretty big. And a lot of people have trouble getting a hundred items, and I I got it. Don't you worry. I got a hundred items on my list plus. Um, but when I was 16, I remember like my mom asked me one time something about like what I wanted when I was older, and uh, and I had all these wants. Like one of them was I wanted a catamaran yacht. Okay. And uh my Malibu wake boat would come out of an elevator in the middle of the catamaran yacht, and I'd get to go wakeboarding and then park it back on and hand the yacht. Dream big, I love it. And uh, I mean, that is still on my wants list in a little different form, but essentially it's still there. So, but the point is that I was always very destination focused. After Warrior, I realized that it's all about the journey, like you said. Like that's one of the meanings of my tattoo and how like the imagery in it is life's about the journey, not the destination. So like what I was searching for is being present, living in the moment, and I was searching for being okay living in the journey.

SPEAKER_03 52:39

Do you think some place is going to give you happiness? Like if I'm if you I have enough money or if I am six no.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

No, because you know, I've had what they call it over the last five years, I've had giant swings in my income from very low to something I never dreamed of, and then to lower than that. Yeah. So um yes, that income for some of those years got us to the life we're at. But Mackenzie and I were talking yesterday that uh it's interesting. I'll probably do a podcast on it, that there's like a very dangerous income realm to where you think it can get you your dreams.

SPEAKER_02 53:29

A billion.

SPEAKER_01 53:30

Uh that that's on the list, but I'm talking like in the low millions, right?

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

And and you you get this lifestyle, and we've talked about lifestyle creep. Um, we learned about it from our therapist. Yeah. But lifestyle creep is very real. And when you're maybe in the high hundreds or low millions, uh, you get this really cool lifestyle really fast. But turns out it's really hard to maintain. And that is is something that is very interesting and also brings to light the fact that it's about the journey and that there is no income destination. Like if I become a billionaire tomorrow, I'm not gonna stop this.

SPEAKER_03 54:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

I'm not gonna stop momentum. You know, we only have what 10, 12 of us on the team. I'm not gonna stop building that. I'm not gonna just go sit in Mexico. Um, I've got um a friend and also one of the employees here. We were talking the other day, and he has a buddy who I think he sold a company, probably made a couple million, like enough that he could retire comfortably on. And he has a house in Baja, and uh, and he sits there, he's got gardeners, he's got stuff like that. And I think he like races razors and trophy trucks on the beach and shit like that. And then it's like the we were talking about him, and I was like, Oh, that's so cool. And then I like sat there and I was like, God, that sounds so boring. Like, I was like, holy shit, like I could do that for a week, maybe two, and then I'd just be like crawling out of my skin. Like, what am I doing here? Yeah, like I just I wake up, I meditate every morning, I eat breakfast, I work out, I go do something cool, motorized vehicle. I come home, eat dinner, and and I I think this specific person we were talking about, I don't know if he had a wife or a girlfriend, but like but it sounds lonely. So no, there I'm finding that there's no amount of money that will get me to a destination. It's again all about the journey. Like, yes, there's big amounts of money that will help me in my journey and probably get me a lot of the things that I want, but there's no stopping there.

SPEAKER_03 55:57

Yeah. I I think that there's I I like when you talk about that there are times where you had money and then you you weren't making that. And kind of unfortunately, we create lifestyles, yeah, and then there's a lot of pressure to maintain lifestyles when they're full of travel and and nice things. And I never apologize for liking nice things. No. But I think there's power in in going with that ebb and flow because it builds your confidence. We're gonna right. I think that's super important, is that you have to be able to bet on yourself. You have to know that I can't, I believe enough in myself that I can make it back. I believe enough in myself that I can do it again. Um and I I hear, I think with Jake, I think what maybe people, I don't know if they know this about you. Your followers is that what they call them? I think we're like we have followers. I'm not really sure.

SPEAKER_01 56:50

This I probably do this more for me than them, but I really hope people get benefits.

SPEAKER_03 56:54

And I think that's great. And I think I think that I mean, ultimately, I think that's what we're all doing. I'm doing real estate for me too. I mean, I I think understanding some of the whys behind we do what we do, um, you know, you are a dreamer, and you are a you you you have such incredible imagination and you're a creator, and I think that's super exciting. And when you have that in you, when you're a creator, it's like when you you're an entrepreneur, it's a baby. You're it's it's like your baby. My business is my baby. You raise it, you you you're growing it, you're changing, you're evolving with it. And so when you create things, I think that's a hard thing to turn off. It's people can look at success and and uh or financial success, because there's there's different layers of success. But when people look at, I think people assume we're always striving for financial success. Right. When you make it like as an entrepreneur. As an entrepreneur, as an entrepreneur or maybe a successful entrepreneur, there's like this, you know, I I've got my YSL bag over there, I got my Louis Vuitton briefcase. I'm driving a Range Rover. Judge, judge, judge, judge.

SPEAKER_01 58:06

I always rolling down their windows yelling at you for driving a Range Rover. Yeah, it's understanding.

SPEAKER_03 58:10

And the thing is, is I'm like, I don't, I I'm very comfortable. Like, I like beauty, I like nice things. I went for Victoria's Secret for 18 years. Like, I I love beauty and I love fashion, and I'm not going to apologize for that. And I've earned every penny of that through blood, sweat, and tears. And if I choose to spend my money on that that way, who cares? I'm earning it, I'm not taking it from someone else. So I think I always like hearing the story behind successful people because behind all of us, there's either a feeling that we weren't good enough, a feeling like we have to, we're still never going to be good enough, a feeling like like the fact that you're coaching and have gone through as many coaching is because you're searching for something in your heart and in your soul. And you're you're whether it's nirvana or happiness or feeling at peace or feeling like you're good enough, there's something there, and we can we can all relate to that. And and I grew up poor, and so for me, it's I there's so much pride and so much emotion and and passion behind what I do to give my children and my grandchildren and my family a better life than I had. I remember when my mom paid for things with food stamps, and I was like, I will never be that person. And so judge me all you want. I'm going fucking success story. Like kiss my ass, like grew up on welfare, bitches. So judge me, judge me, judge me. I'm not doing that. So I I think keep sharing the suck is what I, you know, you are you have such a big heart, and and you and McKenzie are you, you guys are it's real because you because it cannot look real sometimes, right? Like it's it's real. You guys are real humans with real emotions, doing real things, and and you're doing it with grace.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

You're one of the most authentic leaders we know. And we wanted to understand that authenticity and where it comes from. So that's that's why I had all the questions about diving into intent. Um can I share a story versus impact? Yeah, please.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:31

Okay, I don't know much time we have left. I have to share a story. I thought about authenticity, and I, you know, I there's on my Instagram I'm getting things about like avoidant attachment, and you know, it's all over.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:44

Oh, your algorithm is really fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

Oh, you don't get that either?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:48

No, your algorithm is messed up.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:50

Okay, well, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:51

You know, are you searching for that?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:53

No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:56

Um I know someone else who actually has the same algorithm as you, which is hilarious. That's why I'm making fun of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:03

Oh my gosh, I don't even want to know. And now I forgot where I was going. What was I going to do?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:07

Sorry, you were talking about avoiding behavior, I think, avoiding something for your Instagram. You get memes that pop up about that.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:14

And she asks, How's your day going? And I went, Well, I drank too much last night. I had a moment of weakness, I got completely insecure. I sent a text to a gentleman that I'm dating that I really like, and I totally fucked it up. And so I'm not doing that great today.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:30

And she was like, Okay, thank you for sharing that. I hope you have a better day.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:35

And so I I balance between is there's something, there's some psychological thing wrong with oversharing, but I don't know how to be anything else but that. Like I love you. I I just if I'm I'm you're gonna get where I'm at. And I hope that you can meet me at where I'm at because I do believe we're all real and I do believe we're all human, and I believe we've all spent days crying in the bathroom or feeling like a superstar or feeling like you can conquer the world to feeling like you're the biggest, stupid, worst person on the planet. And so I I think that real matters and authenticity matters. And so I don't know how my Lululemon checkout gal felt about that, but I think she kind of appreciated that that was probably the most color everything that you just told us. I said that exact thing. I literally told her that exact thing. I was like, that's where I'm at. You want to know how my day is? That's what's happening in my day. And I think how I I would I appreciate when people don't give me, I'm fine, it's great, it's good. I I don't do small talk very well. And so um, so I don't know what psychological help I need as a result of being an overshare. But to me, authenticity is about let's peel back the layers and get to know who we really are. You went to the you went to the emergency room for what, Jake Lewandah? Let's talk about this. What's going on?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:01

Chest pain.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:04

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:05

Which all the workups came back a hundred percent good. Yeah, yeah. So when we were leaving, let's go to Dr.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:12

Chin, cardiologist, next.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:15

The nurse came in and uh and she goes, Well, you are in perfect health, yeah. And uh, and she goes, So, like, are you really stressed? And I was like, Yeah, I suppose I have a pretty stressful job. She goes, Nice. Have you ever tried like meditation? Yeah, I meditate.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

It's not working!

SPEAKER_01 1:03:35

Yeah, do you she goes, Do you like see a therapist? Or like two talk therapists? I was like, Yeah, two of them. And she goes, Oh wow, you do all this stuff and you're still having this problem. I was like, Yeah. So anyway, it was um, yes, I can giggle about that, but no, it's um, I suppose it's very similar feeling to what you said about talking to the doctor and a moment of uh the doctor saying, Hey, you have a heart issue. Yeah. And saying, Okay, like what does that mean? And what am I gonna do to change?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:13

Yeah. I have a feeling it's going to be mastering of your mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:19

Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:20

Um I was going to, we got a little off topic, which was all fantastic stuff. But I wanted to follow up.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:28

You mentioned, and I is he trying to deflect?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:31

No, not. Oh, okay, okay now, I because I want the answer from you two. I'll tell you mine first. But you asked me, like, is there a destination? Yeah. Or what's the destination gonna feel like? The destination for me is the day I don't feel like I have to prove myself.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:52

Yeah, that's that's how do you think you get there?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:56

No idea.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:57

Oh yes, you do. Come on. Um You're doing it already.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:01

Yeah, there's uh I mean there's a lot of work with it. I actually I don't think it's it'll be released before this episode, but we did uh uh an episode with Ken Adams, who's a coach of mine. And we talked a lot about it. And um so that episode, there is some how-to's within that. Um but it's a massive journey. And I think TikTok therapy, somatic therapy, working on unconscious, working on mindset, working on gratitude, yeah. That's all part of the puzzle. Yeah. So um I think it's different for everybody. And I think it depends on your upbringing, past trauma, whatever that is. And uh and finding like that, I suppose, is the journey. And finding what is your journey to get to that point. Because to me that's freedom.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:01

Yeah, because it's a huge weight lifted off your shoulder and it's a it's some baggage you've been carrying around and some some it's hard on your heart. Yeah. I think everything's symbolic, right? And and so if you're feeling chest pain or heaviness, it's because something's weighing heavy on your heart.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:18

Um, and I know your family, so I I guess we've never talked a lot about your upbringing, but I I want to say one thing because I I struggle with this. Your wife has said that you and I are cut from the same claw. She always says we're so much alike.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:35

And uh making dirty jokes and swearing all the time. I think that's mostly what she means.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:40

No, no, I I I think it's more like how we think. Not to deflect. Right, not to um, but I I have found that you know, we have very strong minds. You know, it takes it takes a certain kind of personality type to do multiple businesses and to have courage. Like there's a tremendous amount of courage that goes behind the things that we do that people don't see or and they underestimate. Um, being able to face your fear is something that we do very well. And so you have to have a very strong mind, right? You got to do a lot of self-talk and you gotta pick yourself up and you're like, you got this. But with a strong mind, it's also very hard to change our patterns. And so I I am right now working on mastering my emotion and mastering my thinking because I we create through our mind. And I have obviously a very traumatic childhood and feeling of unloved, unwanted, not important, not valued. And boy, is it showing up in my fucking life? And so it's and but my mind is powerful. I am I and I it does not shut off. That's why I have sleep problems, is because it is go, go, go constantly, and it is running and telling a story in it, and that bitch is loud. Yelling at you all night, yelling at me like, what the fuck did you do now, Joy? Be better, Joy, you know, and so it's it's uh it is not easy because I know your brain is a lot like mine, and so you just have a very powerful brain, and it's fighting you every step of the way, but um, you're doing all the right things, and I think it's beautiful that you're you're being vulnerable because I do think that vulnerability is is uh is facing fear, and we just have to keep facing it, right? Do we just have to keep like, you know, whatever things that creep up in our mind, we've got to look at it and hopefully we can look at it objectively and not constantly be evaluating ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:46

So yeah, if we can move past that, that'll help a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:49

Yeah, but you're young. I mean, I hope I hope I'm not I hope you're not looking at me and going, oh my gosh, she's like 20 years older. How don't how man older am I than you? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:01

I actually don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:02

Okay, well, more than 10. I have an idea. It's more than 10. I won't say it out loud. I'm still trying to figure it out. Sorry. Yeah, you got a long way to go, buddy.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:15

Okay, so with that, uh my question to you is the same question about destination. Is there one for you? Um, like I said, there I don't know, for me, there's not really destination, but I suppose I just gave one.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:30

And that would allow me the freedom to continue my journey in a way that I want to. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm still doing it the way I want to, but I suppose that's a destination for me. Do you have a destination?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:47

Maybe not the I do. And I think we should do this podcast together every three months. Because I think it would be interesting to see where we're at in three months. So I'm gonna give the answer of what I'm working on right now, um, which is I wanna be able to let go of needing validation. And I think that is a huge hindrance in my life. And if I could release that need for validation and and have a calm confidence in myself that truly I am enough and that I love myself as I am, um, I think that's gonna be a game changer for me. So I'm I'm and I'm so I'm taking that's one step. That's a step and in three months we should talk again and then see how we're doing. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:35

Thank you for sharing. I have a feeling a lot of people share that one, which is difficult. Yeah. Very difficult. So it's not an easy one.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:43

Yeah. Oh, I j, you know, I just had a chit show of a well, ask my Lululemon girl.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:51

That's amazing. Down there getting something for Kenzie. Hey, did you have a crazy lady in red in here like a month, a couple of weeks ago?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:00

She was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:01

She was amazing and crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:04

And crazy. Oh, in the good way, in the good way.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:08

All right, so we end every single one with a question that was not on.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:13

Question 16?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:14

No. It was question 16 on there. Did you add questions? Oh man, you do know it. Okay, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:20

Can you know I'm gonna tell you something? That was the only question I did not think about.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:24

Good. That's perfect.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:25

Because you're that was the you didn't ask me any of the questions that were on it. I asked myself the questions.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:32

This was way more fun this way. This was way more fun this way. Um, so what is it?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:37

Wait, hold on before I that is since this is the last question. Can I ask you a question?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:42

Oh, yeah, we can just continue on.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:43

Okay, what brings you joy?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:46

Oh my, you joy.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:49

Sorry, Mackenzie.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:50

Uh, what brings me joy? Actually, that is very timely that you asked that. The way that I see emotions is um for me, like I almost see it in like the shape of a rainbow, I suppose. Um, or like this expansive thing. So you have I'm just gonna label them negative emotions and pot is positive emotions, even though um just for info, I don't think anger is a negative thing, but we're just gonna call it that. So we have two sides, um anger, sadness, things like that. On the other side, we have joy, happiness, um, inactivation, gratitude, things like that. So I think one of my counselors is uh more of a somatic therapy, and I specifically sought her out because I don't know how to feel angered. Um part of my that's part of my childhood, at least the way I perceived it, um was not really understanding how to feel anger. So I went to her for this and uh we talked about a lot of other stuff. But the whole point is is that if I if you can't feel anger or you can only feel it to a certain point, then the opposite is true on the joy side. So um if you have trouble feeling one side, you're gonna have trouble feeling the other, and you're losing out on a big piece of life. So understanding how to actually feel anger or feel sadness also gives you the opportunity to feel more joy.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:32

Um I just wanna hug you right now. But um and squeeze that tight button. Thank you. Thank you. Um that's that's what I've been working on.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:47

Yeah. Um so this is funny, just backing off to what you just said, is I think it's about finding joy.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:57

You know, I think it is about you know, finding joy in the small things. Um I think you and I are similar. I want to do something meaningful. And I think that's why you're here today, is you want to do something meaningful. I want to be remembered. I don't want to live a small life. I I want, I hope a lot of people come to my funeral, and I'm sure some will be to be like, just didn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:22

But for the most part, I'm sorry that lady. But that's a good life right there. Well, there's a lot of good life there.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:32

But but I I hope that people will say that they remember me for my authenticity, or they remember me for my joy, or they remember me for my smile and laughter, and and that I that I was honest. Um and and so leaving a legacy is important to me. And I think that means that we can't play small, we can't be afraid, we can't be afraid to cry on a podcast, and we can't be afraid to to talk about our going to therapy or to talk about messing up. And and because I I I do, I I think finding joy is is when life is meaningful. Um and and we have to find meaning. I I don't get angry very often. It's very, very rare. And I know you and I are a lot alike, and so I think that's gonna be an interesting journey for you to experience because what is our to get angry about?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:29

Good question.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:30

Because it's all how we perceive things, right? It's all how we interpret things, and like I gotta work on my sadness. I am very good at getting sad. Yeah, and I think that came because my mom was a victim a little bit. I grew up and I I was got very good at becoming a victim, and so I'm very good at being sad. What am I sad about? Like it's my own story that I'm creating in my head. So I'm excited for that journey for you. Joy is ultimately the destination, but we gotta find joy in the small things like hanging out with you, drinking a hot chocolate after you made fun of me.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:05

I forgot that that's a hot chocolate. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:08

And because creamer is banned in 37 countries, plug.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:14

If you were wondering, how's non-bleach toilet paper and no creamer? So if anyone wants to be healthy, stop drinking creamer. You don't like black coffee then?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:27

I hate the taste of coffee. I just loved a good hot, sweet drink in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:30

Ah, I see.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:31

Yeah, just like I like my men.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:35

And your men. Beautiful, beautiful, hot and sweet.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:40

Hot and sweet.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:41

Oh, that's so delightful. So delightful. I hope you find one of those.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:45

I'm working on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:46

Excellent, excellent. Okay, we'll probably be doing a follow-up on this one. More crime, more stuff to talk about.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:55

I hope I come back. I think that will be fun. Yeah, yeah. That's great. Yeah, you can back. Thanks so much for joining in today.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:01

Yeah, really. So thank you. Thanks for tuning in to the Success Architect. If today's episode helped you lay a stronger foundation for your business or your life, subscribe and share it with someone ready to do the same with their. You can follow me, Jake Lewendol, on social for daily tips on health, wealth, and building success at last. Until next time, keep designing, keep building, and keep leveling.