SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to the Success Architect, where we don't just build homes, we build legacies. I'm your host, Jake Lewendahl, custom home builder and coach. Each week, I sit down with builders and entrepreneurs who are ready to 10x their business, their health, and their mindset. This is where blueprints become breakthroughs. Let's get to work. All right, what's up, guys? This is Jake Lewendah back on The Success Architect, and I have a fantastic guest today. I'm super excited to have him, Jeffrey Greenberg, and I call him Jeff. He is a client, past client and current client of ours, which is very fun. And future. And future. Yes. Thank God. We're still in the game, guys. We haven't screwed it up yet. Gotta keep you on your toes. Exactly. So super happy to have him here. And Jeff has made his career in the real estate realm. All kinds of different stuff from residential, multifamily to warehousing to office space, much on the East Coast, now transferring a ton of that property over to Montana. And that's where Jeff mostly spends most of his time. So I'm going to let Jeff give a little bit of a background in what he has done. And then we're going to jump into a conversation that revolves around what we talk about at SuccessArchitect, which is holistic lifestyle. We're going to talk philosophy, we're going to talk about money. That's what I'm excited about. Sounds great. Jeff, give us just a quick background. Some of the stuff you've done in real estate. I mean, honestly, just seeing a couple of your stats boggles my mind. It's very, very cool to have you here and to listen to a little bit of your past.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

Sure. Well, not to give it away, you mentioned that I have a philosophy degree. Yes. And I will just say I have two graduate degrees on top of that and life experience. And the most practical thing I've ever studied is philosophy. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Nobody would ever really know that.

SPEAKER_04 2:29

Best thing I've ever studied has to teach me everything, you know, to be able to handle, you know, anything. That's amazing. I love that. So that's a little the end point. But uh, you know, the history is my father passed away at 22. He was in the real estate business, mostly multifamily and some industrial, going back also to my grandfather. And my whole family, my mother, my brother, and myself got thrown into the business. I was 22. Got it. I just graduated college. And it was 1990, and the real estate world collapsed. It was the SNL crisis. And we had to learn everything about real estate trial by fire. Got it. And we did. Yeah. And then my brother and I started building our own business.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Had you learned from your dad prior to 2020, I was philosophy. You knew nothing. So you just got shoved in because you guys had the business. So it's like, okay, we got to keep the family business going. Uh it was our livelihood. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Right. It was survival.

SPEAKER_04 3:26

Yep. 100%. Right. And none of us had ever really worked in the office or really knew anything about it. Wow. Okay. First we had to take care of my mother and you know, her assets. And eventually we sold her whole her assets so she would be liquid and be good. Yep. And then my brother and I built up our own business buying assets, you know, one at a time. And my first building was we call it an inline taxpayer in Montclair, New Jersey, you know, retail on the first floor, office on the second floor. Okay. Uh bought it from an old piano store. Okay. And we renovated that, bought it for $300,000, renovated for another hundred. You guys do the work yourself? No, no, we hired a contractor. You know, that worked. Okay. And we're like, wow, this is great. This is cool. So and then we did some uh, you know, one deal at a time. And one thing my father always said was just do one thing at a time, and then you know, one deal at a time or whatever it is. In 10 years, you have 10 buildings. Yeah. You know, or whatever your area is, right? Just do one thing at a time. And one of the themes I I would talk about is just the concept of compounding and not just money and deal, but everything in your life. You compound by taking care of one thing at a time. And then after a number of years, you have all these things working for you. Yep. And not just real estate or money, or but, you know, family and and and friends and you name it. 100%. It's a theme that runs through a lot of what I do and what I believe. So we built up the business, we started doing some warehouses, uh, you know, and renovating them. And then we got into office buildings, and we did a lot of office buildings in New Jersey, a lot in Newark, New Jersey, some, you know, some pretty big buildings. Yep. And then we got into multifamily and we started doing a lot of multifamily in the Carolinas, uh, North and South Carolina, and then in Virginia Beach. So we did about 10,000 units in total. Jeez. We didn't build them. We'd buy, you know, C and B and make them, you know, B and A properties. Got it. And increase the rents and pump it up and then sell it. Got it. And then we would do 1031 exchanges out of that. Yep. And whether it was an office building or anything, and roll that money into the next deal. Yep. And the whole goal was just to keep doubling your money every five years. Okay. We were in Ohio, Pennsylvania, upstate New York, Virginia, I'm in Indiana now. But a lot of these things we've cycled in and out of, you know, and it's more of a portfolio, you know, theory about when it's time to sell something. Yep. And I think our strength has been in going to markets that are not popular yet. Right. Kind of the Wayne Gretzky method. Got it. Go where the puck's gonna be. Okay. We went into Raleigh, our first big multifamily deal in 2011 was or 2012, was in Raleigh. And I remember everybody saying to us, that's a tertiary market. Okay. And the only reason I'd go there is because I could stop my plane from uh New York to Miami. You know, when I was looking for investors, right? Okay. And and banks were saying, no, no, no, no, we only want to be in gateway cities. Like, this is a state capital with universities. Yeah. And this is right towards the end of the Great Recession. And, you know, we sold one of our office buildings in Newark, and we had Prudential as a tenant, we had one of the top law firms as a tenant. And you'd think, wow, this is the greatest thing ever. Yeah. And we said, you know, this is the greatest risk ever. And risk is a theme we're going to talk about. Oh, yes, we will. We said, well, this is the greatest risk ever, because if anything goes wrong, we're screwed. Yeah. And one of those leave, you guys. Right. So that's where we're like, okay, we have to, you know, de-risk it. Okay. So we sold it. And that was a building, class A building, right next to where the arena is and everything else in Newark. And I thought it was the pinnacle of my career. And I couldn't believe we wanted to sell it so quickly. Right. And because we bought a the portfolio of a thousand units in Raleigh where the rents were $600 a month. And it's a definite change. Right. And we my brother and I both very clearly, and I remember these conversations, we said, you know, I'd rather take a risk after the Great Recession, a lot happened, with someone who can afford $600 a month than these big corporations who can change their mind on a whim. Yes. And I'd rather be renting to hardworking people who work in a hospital as a janitor or as a teacher or somewhere else. Yep. You know, they will always need a place to live, they'll always be able to get a job, you know, and be able to afford these rents.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

And that was de-risking. And you went from I assume, what, six tenants to a thousand? Yeah, pretty much. And so, I mean, that number right there, you lose one out of a thousand tenants, like your percent, not a big deal. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 8:35

So that's the de-risking part. Exactly. But the flip side is the upside part. Yes. Right. Which is I I call it the law of small numbers, and that might not be technically correct, but that's kind of what I call it. I like it. Is it's easier to move a six hundred dollar rent than a six thousand or six hundred thousand dollar rent. Oof, got it. Right? Yep. Because it's easier for someone to afford another sixty dollars than a business to underwrite. You guys have a new lease here. Yeah. Right. You know 10% doesn't feel good. No, it's a it's a big number. Yep. But the law of small numbers, the percentages are small numbers. Right. Same percentage, smaller number. Easier to digest. If you do it for everyone, you're still getting the same benefit. Well, it comes into compounding. Yeah. Right. And it's easier to compound smaller numbers than bigger numbers. Interest. Even though the math works the same, it just seems easier. Interesting. So we kind of felt like we have way more runway there to grow our business. And so that's how we got into the multifamily. And we've gone through a lot of different cycles in our in our business. You know, my brother passed away six years ago. I had to redo the whole business then. I've sold everything that we had then. I have all new properties. Wow. And then now we're in Virginia, Ohio, Tennessee, Indiana. And then we manage elsewhere in Georgia, upstate New York, and Pennsylvania for some third parties that we do work for. And then on a personal level, I I've lived uh full-time in Bozeman for eight years. Yep. Going on nine and part-time up in Big Sky for 25 years. Yep. Before that I was in New York City. And as opportunities come up, I've been, you know, kind of moving assets, you know, and acquiring commercial property here in Bozeman and the valley and and and the area in general. And I want to, you know, concentrate on what I'm doing here now that I'm a little bit older.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

You look pretty damn good. Thank you. That's also work. That's good. Okay. So really quick before we get into methodology or philosophy. One thing I'm sure plenty of people are also curious about. Like, compared to now, when you started that first building that you guys bought for 300K, how did you get financing for that? And then how did you change up your methodology and financing and how do you deal with stuff now?

SPEAKER_04 11:13

Right. Well, I mean, it's crazy. It's so different. You just got a local bank. Yep. Right? Yep. And look, we had a little credibility because of my father and my mother. We had an office, we were running things, but we we didn't have anything. Yep. And it was my brother and me. No one was helping us other than connections. Okay. Right. You know, we got lent the down payment. Okay. Basically, from our family. Got it. And it was like a hundred grand. Yep. And then we went out and got a loan. Sweet. You know, for the rest of the acquisition and the renovation. Okay. And, you know, this is 1995. Not so you know, everyone thinks, oh, back then everything was so easy. Right. What we're doing. Oh, they were like nine percent. Okay. Yeah. And but also we were coming out of the SNL crisis. Yep. A lot of vacancies everywhere. You know, everyone was risk averse. Yep. And I I we were afraid. I mean, we didn't know what we were doing. 100%. 100%. Versus, you know, today, you know, uh I've I've I've grown my portfolio enough that I have the equity to put into uh projects like the one on Main Street that we're doing. Yep. Which we did as a 1031 exchange. Yep. And you know, at this point I can use a line of credit to close on a building up to a certain size, and then I'll backfill it with uh a loan. Like there we used I went to for security and they gave me a loan. Nice. You know, after I've already closed on it. And I just that's just structuring the money.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Got it. And so you have you have the ability with the credit line to move fast and then you can backfill it later. Okay. Beautiful. And do you do any projects now that you get outside investors for, or are you all within your inputs or your umbrella?

SPEAKER_04 13:04

You know, now I'm looking to do less with institutional outside investors. I'll bring in, you know, friends, family, high net worth individuals, you know, into deals, but I'm gonna be majority of everything that I do locally. Yep. I'll be the majority of it. And if I bring other people in, it's it's for well, it's for fun.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Yeah. And help people get started or get them something to do with it.

SPEAKER_04 13:29

Yeah, and it's it's fun to work with other people who are like-minded and just to do everything myself becomes a little bit of a lonely sport, right? You don't always play golf alone, you go out with other people. You know, it's still your score. Yep. Right. And so, you know, it's just fun to, you know, make it an activity to work with other people. Love that. Compounding friendships. Compounding friendships. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

We're gonna talk a lot about compounding. So tell me a little bit about how like number one, why'd you choose philosophy? Number two, I'm sure you didn't realize what direction it was going to lead you, but how did that shape how you do business and life?

SPEAKER_04 14:13

Well, yeah, I before we get into all the philosophy stuff, I I I downloaded a quote. I have two quotes here. And this a lot of this podcast is about work-life balance and life and how that works. Yeah. And you know, I and I never liked the phrase work-life balance because you know it's a dichotomy. And dichotomies, the classic dichotomy is good versus evil, good versus bad, what have you, right? Right versus wrong. You know, just the nature of a dichotomy is one's good, one's bad. Yep. Right. So it implies work-life balances, work is bad, life is good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Or the two at least don't work together.

SPEAKER_04 14:55

Right. Right. And that's really uh, I think a poor way to think about it. And and language means a lot. Yeah. And the way we define things and name things, naming. I mean, the Bible named things. Genesis was naming, right? And that's one of the most powerful things that we can do is name things. And so I never liked that that concept. So I found a quote that I've heard a long time ago. And it's the master in the art of living makes little distinction between his work and his play, his labor and his leisure, his mind and his body, his information and his recreation, his love and his religion. He hardly knows which is which. He simply prov pursues the vision, his vision of excellence at whatever he does, leaving others to decide whether he's working or playing. To him, he is always doing both. That's amazing. Right. And incredible. James is attributed to James Mitchell. And you know, to me, that that that's my philosophy. Right. It's like we need a holistic life. We need to work hard. We need to sweat. We need to worry. Right. I mean, that's part of life. But you know, it's not just one thing or the other. No.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Until my daughter, God put us on this work or on this earth to work in the morning, she doesn't want me to have to go to work. And and we talk about that, like that's why God put us here. It's meaning. It's part of the joy and the life. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 16:30

Yeah, for sure. It's very important. But anyway, uh so it's just if we transition to talking about philosophy, I wanted to start with that. But to answer your question, I went to Colgate University in upstate New York. And, you know, I was a freshman and I was just impressed with the people that were in that department. Right? The professors and the students. They just seemed to me the smartest people on campus. That's awesome. Right. And I was like, you know, I I want to be more like them. Right? You're looking another theme is role models, which we could always talk about. Oh yeah. But those were my role models. And I was like, you know, if I could be like them, they were thoughtful, they were intelligent, they didn't fly off the cuff and you know, what have you. And and the professors I thought were outstanding. And I'm like, great, this is you know what I want to study. Yep. And the joke about it was, you know, once the philosophy students were we were all together for some purpose, and we had to answer a question to another group of people. What's the hardest thing about being a philosophy major? And we all decided it's telling your parents.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

That is so true.

SPEAKER_04 17:46

That is true. People joke about philosophy majors. And the irony now is so these AI companies are hiring philosophers to teach the AI. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Yeah, you gotta teach the models.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

Gotta teach the models. Yeah. This article is all about that. And you know, that they're in in demand.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Yes. That's amazing. Oh my God, how the world has changed. Electricians and philosophy majors. Yeah. High demand, right? High demand. Yep. There you go. I I need to work on my electricians. Yes. 100%. Yeah. That's amazing. Okay. So when you take uh philosophy and what you learned in college and what you've learned through your experience, many people separate how I think or how I do life from how I make money. You seem to put the two together and it's all holistic. It's all the same. It's all fun. How does there's worry. There, like there's there's work, but it's all one. It's all one. I live one life. I don't live two lives. Yes, exactly. It all goes together. And so how does that all go together? And how does that work with your philosophy on how I make money?

SPEAKER_04 19:01

You know, one of the best lessons I had was that formative for me was skiing, right? I was in my early 30s. I was skiing a Jackson Hole and I wanted to be a better skier. And I was not comfortable skiing the glades, the trees. So I hired an instructor to go ski with me for half a day. And we get out in the first run. He goes, You're a great skier. What what's the problem? I go, Well, I'm afraid of hitting the trees. And he goes, Oh, that's easy. He goes, Don't look at the trees. Don't look at the trees, yeah. Right. And I'm like, what do you mean? He goes, look at the gaps. Look at where you want to go. And your body will follow. Right. And, you know, like most lessons, it takes a while to actually sink in and mean something to you. I mean, and he was literally just talking about skiing. And I now think about it as my whole philosophy of life. Yeah. But you look at the gaps, look at where you want to go. You will bring yourself to that. And whether it's relationships, right? If you want to get into a relate, you know, the right kind of relationship that's good for you or or friendship, you know, you need to focus on it and and bring yourself to it. Right. You can't say nobody likes me or uh, you know, I'm I'm this, I'm that. How you talk about yourself. Words are important. Words are important. And, you know, there's and I'm throwing in I'm mixing so many different concepts and metaphors. You know, there's the the Buddhist concept of, you know, right thought, right speech, right action. Okay. Right. That, you know, you can't talk bad about people and things, right? And go, but I have good thoughts. Right. Right. It's all good. And I have good actions. Right. It's all related. So you need to talk positively about yourself, about others, right? And while they may, it may not all work out immediately, but it'll lead you to that.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

I firmly believe that. Do you do any sort of life design exercises, goal setting, like any visualization or something along those lines for yourself and how you want to get up and have coffee.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

That might be the extent of it. Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

But you but you think about so instead of maybe writing it down and designing it, you are thinking about it, then you're using your language appropriately and you're taking it.

SPEAKER_04 21:27

Right. Look, I'm a different generation. I'm Gen X. Right. So we're like go outside, drink from the hose. Yep. Right. Literally and figuratively. Yes. Right. And not we don't contemplate it. Right. Got it. We're you know, is the water filtered the right way? Is it right for we don't think about that? That's a millennial thing. Sorry. It is. We just we just wired our way and you're wired yours. No right or wrong. So I, you know, I don't, you know, journal about these things. And there's nothing wrong with it. It's just not where you're from. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

But it's a consideration. Sure.

SPEAKER_04 22:02

Yes. Sure. It's something I think about. I mean and but you know, there is value in action. Yes. Right. And and agency. Yep. And I think agency is something I had or I really had to learn, you know, in my twenties and thirties. Okay. And and how to take uh control of your life and be responsible for your life. Got it. And, you know, whatever you see about me now, successful, whatever, and living Bozeman, wife, kids, grandkids, you know, but that's not who I was in my 20s and 30s. Right. I mean, I was far, far from it. And you have to learn agency and being able to take control and action and responsibility, you know, for all these things. Yep. And I think that's that was an important thing for me to learn.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Yeah. It's probably an important thing for everyone to learn. Some of us don't.

unknown 22:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

You know, and some people, you know, everyone learns it eventually. Yeah. It's true. You have to. Yep. You know, and but anyway, that's, you know, my method is get up and and show up and do it. Approach things in the right way and try and treat people, you know, as good as you can, you know, even if they don't deserve it. And, you know, I lose my cool and I sometimes and I just will step away and I try not to let the other people to see it unless I need them to see it. Of course. Right. There's those days. There's those days. Yep. Strategic. It is strategic. And yeah, it's get up, show up, and keep a focus on where you want to go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

I mean, some people say like, and I've said it out loud many times. I mean, eight 80% of life is just showing up when it comes to sales, when it comes to a real estate deal. Like if you're in the room, right? There, there even if only 20% of the time is the right time, if 80% of the time you're there, your chances are very high, right?

SPEAKER_04 24:03

It's a very classic concept. You know, there's you know, old jokes, you know, 80% of life is showing up, right? And or the 80-20 rule is that, you know, 80% of what you make is on the 20% of what you do. Yep. Right. And showing up, you know, is one of the most important things. And, you know, people talk about, oh, they're lucky. Anytime I hear anyone say, oh, they're lucky, I'm like, yeah, well, I got news for you. The the hardest people who work are the luckiest people. Yes. Because they make the opportunity for luck to happen. Yep. And they say, oh, they make their own luck. They don't make their own luck, they allow luck to occur. Yes. Right. You know, it's like buying lottery. More lottery tickets, the more you can win. Buy a shit ton of them. Your luck has a higher potential. A higher, higher percentage. Yep. But yeah, it's the hardest people who work are the luckiest people because they allow opportunity to come in that door. And you just never know. And that's why you you gotta show up. And the other thing is the power of the word yes. Right. And recently my my stepson got married. And he married my next door neighbor's daughter. Yeah. Right. Up here in Big City. Yep. Yep. And wonderful wedding. And uh they met three years ago at a July 4th party on my deck. Yep. And but you know, at the at the rehearsal dinner at the wedding, I realized as I was planning my speech that it was 10th anniversary to the day that I'd met my wife.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Oh wow. Right. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_04 25:44

10th anniversary to the day, maybe the hour. Okay. Right. And so that was my theme for the speech is that you know, if we hadn't met and she hadn't agreed to a second date on the same day, actually, and you know, us continuing the yeses in our relationship. Yes. Right. And and yeses to moving to Montana, and you know, all the yeses that created our relationship and being married and deciding to get married, and our kids saying yes to, including me and their family. And if whose wife's family had not said yes to moving to Big Sky and buying the house next to mine. Totally. Right. And those two and them agreeing to come to a July 4th barbecue on our deck, that's a yes. Yep. And, you know, all the millions of yeses that had happened then in their relationship. Yep. And that led us to that day, you know, to me, it boggles my mind that when you take a positive look at things and allow it to happen, it will bring you to places you don't know that are beyond your expectations, right? Our expectations limit us. Yeah. 100%. Limit us. Yeah. Right. So how do we exceed our expectations? This is by saying yes to the unknown. Yep. It's the only way you exceed your expectations is to get outside what you you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Yep. I mean, can that if I say delete your expectations, is is that a is that a fair statement that allows it? It's an interesting concept. Right. You're you're getting rid of them. You're saying essentially move past them. Transcend them. Transcend them.

SPEAKER_04 27:32

Delete them. We all have expectations. I don't think, you know. Of course. You know, they kind of form a baseline. Sure. But we need to allow opportunity to come in the door. Yes. And you you don't opportunity doesn't come in the door unless you create the the the fertile ground for it. I like it. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Very cool. Very cool. Okay. When it comes to yes, talking about risk, because yes is a big word in in the name, in the in the game of risk, right? Sure. You told me a story about your dad and how you came about deciding to take on more risk in your life. Right. If you're willing, could you tell us a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_04 28:13

Yeah, risk. So the story about my dad is my dad, I was 22, my dad was dying of cancer, and he one of the last things I remember him saying to me, and this is a a man who's dying. He was 59 years old, which is how old I am now. Yeah. And it was one of his last opportunities to tell his younger son, you know, some life advice. Anything. Right. And I don't know if it's something that he needed to tell me or he thought I needed to hear. Yeah. And my guess is it's both. Sure. Because for sure I needed to hear it. Yep. Right. But I don't know that he told me that because of that or because of his own thing.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

And it was take risks. Literally one of the last things he said to me. Learn to take risks. And I needed, I was it's not so much I was risk averse, I was just happy, go lucky. Yeah. And I didn't have a lot of risk in my life, you know, and uh things worked out for me because of my the my nature, my personality, whatever. Things just didn't so I didn't need to take risk. But learning to take risk was one of the most important things I had to do to grow, right? Which is getting outside your comfort zone. And risk is the the growth fertilizer for everything. Yes. And it's not like he said it to me, and I go, oh wow, geez, if I'd only known that. If I'd only known, yeah. Uh now everything's gonna be fine. Right. I mean, it took maybe, you know, decades, you know, a decade or so to to really start to learn it and and integrate it. But, you know, that seed was battling around my brain. And I've learned that risk is not a science, although a lot of people will try and tell you it is. Risk is an art. Yeah. 100% an art. Yep. And you have to learn your art of taking risk and where your comfort zone for that is. And then the more you take, the more you can expand that risk comfort zone. My first deal was small. Sure. Right. I mean, I I felt like, oh my God, there's so much risk. Well, yes. Don't you're 22 and well, it was 27. So it was five years after you told me. Yeah. You know, and and now I've done things when I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm doing that. I mean, we're all just like 14-year-olds at heart. Yes. Right. Uh-huh. I have 14-year-old brain still in there. Oh, yeah. And you're like, okay, mine might be a little more prevalent, says my wife. Well, you're a little younger than me. You know, it's like, oh, do I listen to my 14-year-old brain or my, you know, modern brain?

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Yep. Yep. 100%. Okay. So and in every yes, all the millions of yeses you talked about, there's risk in every single one. There's risk in saying no too, but I'm you you also talked to me about risk is a perception. Yes. Everybody's risk is different. And so no, it's funny is the way I look at it is no is less risky than yes. Sometimes. But that could that easily not be the case.

SPEAKER_04 31:32

Well, it's you have to say no to things. Of course. I mean, it's not like everything's a yes, but you have to learn to say yes to move forward. Right. No does not move you forward. Right. Right. Right. But maybe maybe sets good boundaries. Yeah, but you need to say no. Yep. Right. But yes moves the ball forward. Right. And, you know, look, this things I do in real estate that a lot of people go, oh, I wish I could do that. I go, well, you can do it. I do it. It's no secret. Yep. Right. It's just that I'm comfortable with it. Yep. So how do you get comfortable with it? Gotta start. Gotta start. Gotta start. You know, take a step.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

But if your first deal goes bad, not like terribly bad, but you lose money on it. I've had deals with lost money. Like, like let's say you're let's say as a your your first deal, I'm talking about mine. You know, I I started real estate pretty early, but then I did not continue it. And then my wife and I bought a building, I don't know, three, four years ago, and we just sold it because it made sense for our life to sell it, but but we lost 150 grand on it. And it gave me a bad taste. Right. And and so I'm like, okay, like real estate, like my dad retired because of real estate, or my parents did. And so it's been ingrained. And they'd been telling me to buy real estate since you know I burn I bought my first house at 18. But then you made money on that, right? We made great money on that. Yeah, that one was fantastic. But it was very hard. I came into the workforce in 2008, and it was I I could not figure out a way to get enough money to live and to then save enough to buy my next building. So I never really did. And we had a commercial building, sold it for various reasons, but we lost money on it. And now I'm like, ugh, got a little bit of a bad taste, but I know that there's great benefit in real estate. Like, what do you say to those people?

SPEAKER_04 33:30

Well, look, I've lost plenty of money in deals. I I I we could just do a podcast on what I've fucked up. Same. Okay. Make no mistake about it. And I could I could add up those losses. Yep. And if I only didn't make them, where would I be? Yep. Or all the opportunities I missed that I should have done. Yes. Right. So that's a whole nother podcast. Yep. Maybe five podcasts. Yep. So you learned a lot by that deal.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Bad buy was what it was. Bad buy. Yeah. So it wasn't a bad buy at the time, but it ended up being a bad buy. And probably we should have just held it if we wanted to make money.

SPEAKER_04 34:12

A couple things. In real estate, you there's a saying you make money on the buy. Yep. Right. If you buy right, you won't get hurt. Yep. Two, don't overleverage. Right. Because that that could really hurt you. And three, you know, time. Yep. Right. And, you know I'm a little bit of a student on this stuff. And you know, if you look at 10 or 15 year windows, right. If you time it wrong in 10 years, you still could get hurt. Of course. Right. You could buy at the top, and by the time it goes down, it hasn't come back up in 10 years. Right. Right. But if you look at 15-year intervals, going back 100 years, nobody loses money.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Right. You're going to catch it. You're going to be even.

SPEAKER_04 34:59

So worst case, you're even in 15 years. So this is the worst case.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

This is your description of you told me you consider real estate unrisky. And it's partially due to this perception in this time. Unrisky, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:15

I mean, and look, there's times where you have to sell and take the loss because it's the right thing to do. Right. And you also have bandwidth. Yes. And you're like, maybe I lost money, but I want to use that m money that I do get out of it for another opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Exactly what happened to us. Right. So now So it worked. Okay, but I'm a little angry about it, but at the same time, it was it was what we needed at the time. Aaron Powell Right.

SPEAKER_04 35:37

But so you took that money and now that money's gone up. Yes. Has it gone up enough to cover the loss? It will with what it's invested in. Right. It will.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Yeah. So you didn't lose it yet. It's it's working. The money is working at the moment. So that's that's that's great.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

So it's bandwidth and and time and things to do. So you you re- you pivoted, which was smart. Yep. And it doesn't mean you should just hold something forever and wait for it because you you had a time value of money that you took the balance of that money and you put it to work with your time. Yep. And it's gonna work out. Yep. So here's another one of these crazy old parables that I hear that rattles around my brain that I like to tell. And and you can look these up, right? You know, but and I I'll paraphrase it, you know, is a Chinese farmer, right? Yeah, I like this one. You know this one, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You told me that and the they said, you know, his his son was riding a horse and fell off and broke his arm. And they go, Oh, that's terrible. And the farmer goes, We'll see. Right. And then the army comes along and they take all the able-body sons to to go into the army and go to war. And they go, Oh, to the farmer, you are so lucky. Your son didn't have to go. And he goes, We'll see. Right. And then, you know, all these things go on backwards and forwards, good and bad. Yep. And the farmer keeps saying, We'll see. Yes. You know, and we'll see if it was a, you know, you're doing, you know, you're growing your business. Yep. And we'll see. Yep. You know, neither failure or success are permanent. Right. And, you know, and that's really another important concept is that it's just because I've been successful in the past doesn't mean I'm guaranteed it in the future. Right. And just because you failed on that one investment doesn't mean you're gonna fail in the future. Correct. Absolutely not. Yep. In fact, what I think is the most permanent thing is the history of things that if you uh if you've been successful in the past, you'll continue to be successful in the future. Right. And because you have that ability and thought process and way of looking at things and hard work to make it happen. Yeah. And that is attitude and how you approach things. Right. And you're gonna get thrown lots of shit in your way, and you know, it'll just keep, you know, going and you just have to plow through it. But if you're capable to shovel as quick as it comes in, you know, and just because it's a sunny day doesn't mean every day's gonna be sunny. Correct. But, you know, so I I think people who are successful continue to be successful because they have the formula of how to do it, not because uh how to show up and work.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Right. Yeah, it's it's a it's there's a there's a piece of like grit, I suppose, in there. Yeah. And are again, are you willing to show up? Yeah. And keep going.

SPEAKER_04 38:54

Yeah. And don't don't let it get you down. Have you know, have a sad fest, you know, and then get over it. Yeah. You know, you know, be upset, do whatever you want to do. Right. And then just move on. Yep. You know, so I I know it gets a little boring, but so uh another one of these silly parables I hear is that you know, the uh this guy is hiking up to this mountain to go see this famous guru to find, you know, enlightenment. And he's walking up, and as he's coming down, as he's going up, he sees the guru coming down carrying a sack of his stuff. And he goes, I'm just coming to see you to find the secret to enlightenment. The guru takes off the bag off his back, puts it down to the ground. And the the the guy who's going up the mountain goes, Oh, I get it. I just have to put down what I'm carrying. Right? I just have to put it down. Yeah. And the guru goes, yeah. And he picks it up, puts it back over his shoulder, and continues walking.

unknown 40:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 40:01

So you have to put it down. Yeah. But you still have to take it with you. Yeah, you still gotta pick it back up.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Wow. You know, so simple, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:10

Yeah. You know, every now and then, you know, you can feel sorry for yourself. And, you know, I have challenges, you know, that I have to deal with work and and you know, just keep moving. Yeah. I love that. Look at the gaps.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Look at the gaps. That's a very cool way to look at it.

SPEAKER_04 40:24

Keep an eye on where you want to go.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

I love that. Very cool. Yeah. Okay. Compounding. We gotta get into that, right? Sure. So, first things first, I might have got it wrong, but you told me a concept about how you look at life as renting money and renting time. Help us understand a bit about that and and how that works.

SPEAKER_04 40:49

Sure. You know, once you get beyond enough money for you to have the necessities, right? A home, a car, education, healthcare, food, whatever you need for your children. Yep. You know, everything is gravy to a degree. Yep. Right. But we all want security, right, and be able to remove friction from our lives. Yes. Those two things cost money. So how do you invest, you know, and look at things going to a you know, real estate deal. And I think about when I'm looking at a real estate deal, I am renting my money to that deal. Got it. Right. I want to be paid a rent, right? And I want it to grow. Yep. Those are the two things I need. And so if your money's in the bank and a money market fund making three or four percent, are you gonna put it into a real estate deal making three or four percent? No.

unknown 41:46

Right.

SPEAKER_04 41:47

Not worth my time. No. Because I'm making the same money. So that's bandwidth. So it's not worth my bandwidth because I only have so much of it. You know, it's a my bandwidth or time is a limited resource. Yep. So I want to put my bandwidth to work to maximize my resource. So, you know, I look at a deal and I'm like, you know, I can make seven, eight, nine percent, ten more or more, right? Okay, that's more than double what I could make in the bank. Yep. That's the rent on my money. Yep. Right. I am renting it. And I'm like, you know, still I think this is good growth opportunity. I think I can increase rents. I think I can do something a little bit different. I think the market's gonna grow. Demographics are are gonna grow, which are one of the most important things in real estate. Swim with the tide, right? And demographics is the tide. And I'm like, okay, that's a good use of my bandwidth. Right. And I'll get I'll get rented, uh, my money will receive rent, which is your return while it grows. Yes. And, you know, and then the goal is, you know, if you can, you know, double your money, you know, if you double your money in three years, it's a 20% IRR. Everyone does these spreadsheets and they talk about IRRs and this, that, and the other thing. It's great. Very simple. You could do the spreadsheets to the cows come home. Sure. Right. And you need to do them and to have the backup. Yep. It always comes down to if you double your money in three years, it's a 15% IRR. If you double it in five, excuse me, 15 three years is a 20% IRR. Okay. If you double it in five years, it's a 15 IR.

SPEAKER_03 43:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 43:30

Always. I mean, and if it's not, someone's playing with the numbers.

unknown 43:35

Right.

SPEAKER_04 43:36

Interesting. If someone says to you you're gonna get a 50% IRR, right, in two years, I'm like, you know. Yeah. And it's only a 1.8 X multiple. Yeah, you're like, that doesn't make sense. Okay. Right. It's always the IR versus the multiple. Got it. They have to line up.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

Got it.

SPEAKER_04 43:54

Okay. So a double in three is a twenty, a double in five is a fifteen. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Okay. So simple math, you can spot something very quickly.

SPEAKER_04 44:03

Right. Those are my rules of thumb. Got it. And so if you can, you know, it could be seven years, it could be ten years, right? Yeah. There's no guarantee. Yep. But if I I can get to a point where I'm doubling, you know, whatever I'm doing, the value it doubles every five years, you know, that's great. Okay. You know. And and there's, you know, I do five things, maybe three things work. Great. Right. One's neutral, one's bad. Yep. You know, it's not a guarantee. Got it.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Okay. Okay. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 44:36

But so anyway, that that that notion of renting money and and trying double money is also really tied to compounding. Of course. Right. And compounding, you know, the joke is, I don't know, joke, I think Einstein said it or someone like that. It's the the most powerful force in the universe. It's compounding. Right. And when you're young, you can compound. Right. And the reason I've been successful in real estate is because I'd been no other reason that I've been doing it a long time. Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

And that's allowed the compounding. Yes. Yep. Right. 100%. How do you apply compounding to other places in your life?

SPEAKER_04 45:12

That's that's a great question. And you know, look at where you want to go. And you know, you have to also invest in your relationships. Like you invest in a property, right? And you know, i you don't get paid uh a rent, right? You know, it's different metrics, but you know, if you invest in your friendships, in your relationships with your wife, your children, whatever, there's gonna be rough spots. Yep. Right. But if you put the time in, it does compound, right? And it creates more opportunities, more depth, more everything. Yes, 100%. Okay, beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

I love that.

SPEAKER_04 45:52

You know, I so I had another quote here for you. Yeah. That that I I I I I pulled up. Okay. To go with the first one I gave you. Is and you know, it comes into compounding a bit. When we long for life without difficulties, remind us, remind me that oaks grow strong in contrary winds and diamonds are made under pressure. Right. Okay. And you know, that's been another one that I've kind of you know lived by. Yeah. Is you know, these hard things make us strong. Yes. Right. And they make us resilient. But they're hard. Mm-hmm. You know, and you start, you know, smaller and you get bigger.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

Yeah, bigger. You know, and things get harder. Compounding. Yes. Yeah. And as you compound, I suppose your window of tolerance for those difficult things gets much bigger. For sure. Things that used to be hard are not hard anymore. Your your problems change, right?

SPEAKER_04 46:52

Yeah. So uh, you know, uh when people ask me about real estate advice, I say start small. Yeah. Right? Because small deal, small problems. Big deal, big problems. Yep. Right. If you're starting, you only want to deal with the small problems. Yep. Right. I mean, you don't want to deal with big problems, you know, from the get-go, but you have to grow into them.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

What? I love big problems. We can talk about those two. Okay. So we also talked about yesterday, we were talking about how you see money as a tool. And conceptually, like, I 100% agree. A lot of people make money a goal, though. And you talked about that money is not the goal, it's a tool for the goal or the thing, or like creating the life of what you want. And you already talked about removing friction. Can you talk about more about that philosophy of differentiating the goal from the tool?

SPEAKER_04 47:52

So, you know, you know, the old saying is life, you know, life is a journey. Yeah. Right. It's not getting to destination. It's not a destination. And that's that's basically what I mean is that it's a tool to use to get what you want, in which would be security or less friction or, you know, you know, paying for education or paying for retirement, right? It's not for love of money itself or anything else. But you do have to enjoy the journey a bit, right? And and understand how it works and you know, and how to invest it. Right. You're no different than learning how to build a building, right? And understand how you know all the two by fours come together, right? Uh you're not doing it just for the house. You're doing it because you enjoy building it. Yes. Right. Yes. You enjoy figuring out where the HVAC goes, where the electrics need to go, where where the plumbing needs to, and how all those pieces integrate with each other. And now you have to worry about all the the uh uh you know security systems that people put in and Bluetooth and and we're gonna use geothermal or solar or there's all these layers of complexity that get added to a house that you don't really need. No. But that's the way we do it today.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 49:14

It's the same thing with money. It's like, you know, you could add as much complexity to your investing life as you'd like, right? Okay, but it's not necessary. Got it. But you enjoy building a house. Yep. Right? It's no different that you need to have a you know have a goal of what you're you want, hey. I know I want to have a house. Yeah, yeah. I know what I want it to look like. I don't know what it would look like. Where uh you gotta know where you're going. Yep. But you know, you also have to enjoy and participate in that process to get there. Yes, 100%. Otherwise you're just gonna be miserable. 100%. And same thing with investing your money. Okay. Be interested. You know what it's probably the most important thing in relationships, investing, everything. Be interested in others. Be interested in what's going on. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

Yeah. The more you help others, like just be interested in people. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 50:06

You know you don't have curiosity. You know, I've heard people say to me, Oh, I don't like small talk. Small talk is it's not small talk. Just be curious and interested in others. Talking, yeah, exactly. Just ask people about other things, what they're doing, no different than what we're doing today. Yep. And be interested in investing or being interested in building a house or interested in building a better mousetrap, whatever your thing is.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:32

You know.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

When you were talking about that, it made me think about you have a goal when with the with the the house metaphor. You have a goal, we know roughly what we're going after. We know pretty close to what it's gonna look like. I gotta say, every time we get to the end, I'm pleasantly surprised. And I can see like that happening with relationships, with investing and stuff like that. It's like, I suppose that's part of the risk and the willingness to take the risk, is like you never really know what it's gonna be. But if you put in the work, if you follow some process and you problem solve and you really figure some stuff out along the way and you and you per you persevere through some of the issues, seems like my past experience is I'm almost always pleasantly surprised. And and deep satisfaction.

SPEAKER_04 51:24

Huge, huge satisfaction. Right. Like, wow, I did that. Yep. Right. And I mean, it could be, you know, even when you're little, you know, building blocks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Legos, even if you're following following the the 3D model of how to build it.

SPEAKER_04 51:40

And then this might be one of my flaws is that, you know, and I I have to counter this in myself, is I go, how could I have done it better? Of course. Right. What always? You know, it's like, oh, it would have been great if I did this or it came out a little bit better. You know, oh, that that angle is not whatever I wanted in the thing. And, you know, if I just did it like a couple inches over that way, it could have been better. Yes. And you know, and some of that's good, right? It helps us improve. Yeah. But, you know, you also have to be happy with what you have. And, you know.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

I I've found specifically building houses, like we find ourselves doing a final walkthrough at the very end. And lately I've gotten to the point where my team does most of the nitty-gritty work. I see a lot of the process, but like I've seen that. Yeah, you see, I mean, there's I actually it it's almost embarrassing to say, but at the same time, it's so interesting because it was one of my goals. We are we have one project that is a couple days from finishing, and I have never set foot on that project. I've seen pictures, I know exactly like how it's going, I've heard all the stories, I've dealt with all finances, like all that stuff, but I've never set foot on that project. And I now that I've gotten to that goal, that was a goal of mine, was to have such a good team that I didn't have to. Delegation. And and now I'm like, oh my God, I haven't been there. And I feel like I'm like missing a part of it. But at the same time, that was my goal, and that is a massive piece of success because I have people I can trust who are fantastic. You were looking for that was the gap I was looking for, and we hit it, and I'm like, oh wow. I don't like feels kind of weird. But at the same time, the clients are super happy, they're already making referrals. It's been awesome. But that's your job now. It is. Jobs change. Your job is not to swing the hammer. No, no, it's crazy. And and and when it comes to the perfection piece, you know, a lot of the times like the team will ask me to walk through and comment on stuff. And I'll I'll look around and and I'll see a couple imperfections here. And it's interesting because we find ourselves like we want to do that alone, not with the client, because we don't want to call it imperfections, because most likely, like the client's not going to see any of that stuff that we see. But there's just those little tiny things that could have done better. And there's there's a point where you like you say, hey, like I don't want to say like we're we're okay leaving some imperfections, but there is a point that you have to let it go.

SPEAKER_04 54:15

But every job you do, you can find a way to improve 1%. There you go. 1%. That's it. So we're constantly looking at the 100%. You'll compound that 1%, which is huge. There's compounding. Yes. And even that small amount. Yep. Over 10 projects, that's 10% better. Yep. You know, and your employees learn, and you know, you have to be careful how you tell them so they don't feel like you're critical of them. Yeah. You know, that's another issue. Yes. And you're in a similar role as as me with my business. And that is, you know, I I think of it as well, let me back up. We we all had to enter our business through a specific trade or angle or whatever it is. Yep. Right? Construction, what have you. And you've grown to the next stop step and where you you're able to delegate and have good people as I do. And I mean, I still oversee it, and I still try and teach them, okay, this is why we need to do it. Yes. But I I consider myself a conductor of an orchestra, right? And it's exactly what you want.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

I heard this metaphor from someone else, like very recently. I might have told you. You might have told me, and I think someone else said it too. It's great.

SPEAKER_04 55:22

We're conductors of orchestras. Yep. But think of every conductor. First, they learn to play the violin. Right. And then, you know, they learned maybe the cello or a trumpet or trunk, whatever. They learned other instruments. Yep. And first they worked in a quartet, you know, after being, you know, a solo player and then the quartet, and then it grows. And then they become a conductor. And then what does a conductor do? Conductor has to get the violins to play with the horns, play with the other strings. Yep. Right. And, you know, in your case, that is the electricians, the plumbers, the the HVAC guys, right? The client. And you are the conductor of all that. And then in my business, I'm the conductor. I have to deal with the contractors. I have to deal with the lawyers. I have to deal with this the city. I have to deal with the whatever. Yep. Brokers, you know. 100%. We're that that's the way I think of it. We're we're conductors. We're trying to make music. Literally pointing fingers. And we and a conductor can hear one note off over there.

SPEAKER_00 56:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 56:23

A hundred percent they can. Yep. And that's what you do. You look up and say, heard that. Don't make that mistake again. Yep. Yep. Right. And that's what you do when you walk through. You're that conductor hearing that note, that one note off. 100%. Even though the audience can't hear a thing. No. Other than what you wanted them. God, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Fantastically safe.

SPEAKER_04 56:43

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 56:43

Yeah. That makes me feel better about it.

SPEAKER_04 56:45

Geez.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 56:48

You call the success conductor.

SPEAKER_00 56:50

The success conductor. Maybe we're going to change our name. Right. Merritt's put a lot of work into marketing. Conducting success. Conducting success. I love it. Yeah. That's awesome. I like conducting success. Maybe I'll take that one. You should. There you go. Heritage, the conductors of success. The you talked about the difference between chasing money and using it as a tool for security, for life, for giving back, versus chasing it out of greed. How do you tell the difference, or can you see the difference in yourself and in other people? Or if you were, or another example, maybe if you were mentoring someone, how would you describe the two? The the concept between like how would you define the concept of the difference of chasing money to be a tool for your security, your life, the things you want to do, versus just chasing money out of greed? It kind of goes back to the goal, like money as a goal, but greed.

SPEAKER_04 57:57

Well, you know, the goal is how to live a good life. Yes. Right. And how do I improve the quality of my life? Yep. The quality of my life is not just how many cars I have. Right. Right. Or a boat or a plane. Yep. Those things are fun. Good things. Yeah. You need them a little bit. I get on a plane to go somewhere. Yep. You know? And drive a car here and, you know. But you also I'm smart enough not to own a boat and not smart enough not to own a plane. Yep. Totally. Because those are not good uses of money. Right. They really are terrible ones. Yep. Right. And, you know, it's it's doing things for the right reason. When I when I talk about the buildings that I have and deal with partners and banks, it's you know, we take care of the building from the ground up. You know, and if we take care of those things at the building and with the tenants, everything else will take care of itself. Right. People sometimes worry about in like a real estate deal, oh, the the partnership thing or this money or that, you know, the whatever. If I take care of the physical building and the tenants' needs and grow the and be able to grow the rents and give them what they need, everything else will take care of itself and uh interests will be aligned. Right? It's like you need the sunlight, but you can't look at the sun. Yep. You gotta look off. Right. Yep. And and that's I think that's the difference.

SPEAKER_00 59:25

It's just how where you're you're focusing your your time. You're not looking at that top number, you're looking down at the foundation and you give, give, give, give, give, and it's all gonna come back.

SPEAKER_04 59:36

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And and then, you know, the end once you put in enough time, and sometimes it's years. Yes. Right. You see your end product, you know, and you and you're like, oh wow, that really worked out. Yep. And you took care of people along the way. Yeah. Okay, try and pay my employees well, you know, you know, fairly. And you know, I try and, you know, do all the decisions for the right reasons. Right. And if you do everything for the right reasons, it usually works out. Yep. And every now and then you have a fumble and you deal with it. Yep. Of course.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:12

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:13

You know, but time time makes things work a lot better. More time you have to grow it, like you're growing your business, you know. Where you, you know, think of where you were five or ten years ago. Yeah. Where were you five or ten years ago?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

Well, five years ago, where were you? Five years ago. So 2020, we just sold out of our last company. And I say sold out like we didn't get a lot of money for it. Right. I basically got to tell everyone, I got I got $30,000 in cash, and I got a job that was gonna last me a year, that was gonna pay me about $200,000 for that year. And that year, I had to figure out what the fuck I was gonna do with my life. Right. So where are you now? So now we've got a company that has grown substantially. We do $10 million a year right now, which is great. I'd like to be further along because we hit we hit a stagnant point a couple years ago where we've been stagnant at that.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

But massive progress. And during the stagnant revenue time, I had to start really looking at this just the last week or two because I got in a little bit of a funk that we were stuck on our revenue and trying to figure out like, okay, was there a reason for this? What have we been investing in? We've been stuck on revenue, but we've increased, we've doubled the size of the team, tripled the size of the team with all great people. And every single one of those people I am viewing as an investment for our growth so that we are now slated to double in 18 months is our goal.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:49

So where are you gonna be in five years? I mean, you went from zero basically five years ago, like like you just got out of whatever it is because we weren't working.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:59

And we found out the day we signed for that deal, we found out we were pregnant with our first kid. There you go. And and our deal for that one year's worth of work was not signed. So I was unemployed and just found out we were pregnant with our first kid.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:13

So I think bank. Right? I mean, you have you have two daughters.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:18

One daughter, one son. One daughter, one son. Yep. Right? Yep. And you're you're in a new office and your business is growing and we live in a fantastic place.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

And yeah, well, we could talk about that. We all love living here at five years from now, what what what's possible? Massive possibility. I mean, I'm talking the goals are 10x in the construction company. We've got a tent, I've got a tech company. The goal is in five years, there's either either massive recurring revenue or an exit.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:52

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:53

And so yeah, the possibilities are huge. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:56

And if it's not five years, it's ten years. That's okay. That's okay too. Yep. Right. It's they're not fixed things. No. And I I have to keep reinventing my business. I'm doing it as we speak again. Yep. Right? For the second time in five years. Yep. Right. Reinvented it five, six years ago. Yeah. I got to exactly where I wanted to be, expected to, surpassed my expectations. There you go. Right. Yes. Transcend it. I transcended my expectations. I did. You know, knocked it out of the park. Yep. But I didn't do it to knock it out of the park. I did it because those are the right things to do at the time. Yes. And I said yes. And I said yes to opportunities and I jumped on. Love it. So now I have to reset and go, okay, now we're what's the gap? You know, where do I want to bring it through over the next five years? Yep. So I think five years is like a reasonable. Ten years to me is like a future that doesn't exist. Uh who knows what? So that's a long ways out there. I agree. Three years, you know, three to five years is is is something that, you know, I I think is more imaginable.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:04

Constantly hearing that a lot of people say you you usually can't accomplish what you think you can in one year, but you can accomplish, I mean, multiple, multiple times as much as you think you can in five years. Right. So I like that three to five year window because the possibilities are actually endless.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:25

And whatever you do in five years, you know, you gotta do it again. You gotta do it again. You mean I'm 59. I'm still trying to figure out where I want to bring things. Yep. Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:35

There's no retirement for me. Let's that's the the, you know, I know I think you have you have a meeting in seven minutes. So I I do have a final question for you. Yeah, that's true. We can tell him we're gonna do it. They can wait. Continue on on that. Are you ever going to retire? Why would you, or are you not going to and why?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:58

Well, the joke is real estate guys don't retire, we just depreciate. Fair enough. And look, I don't work for a big company. I don't have a just a job where I get some stock options, or you know, and we all know people like that. And that's great that they and there's times in my life I wish I had that, right? Like, oh, I could just show up and check out options. And I'm like, okay, I retire and, you know, go, you know, play mahjong or whatever. Yep. But, you know, I I'm an investor. Yeah. Right. And what I'm to me, so-called retirement is really tr transitioning my investments and my real estate to to the things I want to take care of and work on and keep my brain interested in over the next 10, 20, some odd years. Yep. Right. And that's why I'm doing more here. These are to be more fun projects, less partners, less stress, less friction, less brain damage. Yeah. Right. And to me, that's the retire so called transition. is is to a different class of asset that serves me more personally at this stage of my life. Got it. Right. And and and that will come with its own challenges. Of course. You know, and you you actually you're a part of that right now with our the project we're working on. And I told you about another one I'm looking at this afternoon and I've got some other you know, I'm always looking. Yep. But but that's fun for me. Yeah. Right. 100%. And so I gotta do something. Good. I love that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:28

And uh oh yeah sorry two more questions. If your dad were here today would he what would he say about how well you took his advice that's that's a good one.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:41

Guess me. It does. He'd be very proud. Yeah. You know for a lot of reasons. One because of what I've done but also living out West was was one of his dreams. Interesting. Yeah yeah okay that's very cool. He was a a champion horse jumper. Oh wow yeah in the 1950s okay national reserve national green jumper reserve champion which is like the biggest you know competition. Wow right and he always wanted to you know move out west you know he loved the west and you know John Wayne and you know all that. Yep and so it didn't work out for him for lots of reasons and but I I I learned to ride horses and and I spent a time at a ranch camp out in Wyoming in the Sunlight Valley in between Cook City and Cody. Okay. When was that? Uh from 1980 to 1984. Okay. Five summers. Yep. Right? I was 12 to 16. Nice. That got into my blood. And then you know I wanted you know and then I had the opportunity to have a house up in Big Sky. Yep. When Big Sky was nothing. Yeah right I mean it was Yeah you got in early I don't want somebody to hear like oh yeah he's got a house in Big I'm like yeah well I went there when it was wilderness logging roads and grizzly bears. Yep. There was nothing there, trust me. Yep. And you know and then I had the opportunity eight nine years ago with my now wife to move to Bozeman and to start our life here. And you know I I've surpassed the expectations that I had then transcended them. Yeah. And this is a life that I could have imagined for myself when I was in my you know teenage and early 20s I'm living that life now. It took me a long time to get there. But also I know that this would have been what my father would have loved. Very cool. Yeah very so I mean I just uh you know yes that question it chokes me up because I I know he would be uh you know thrilled with it it's amazing amazing okay what does success mean to you that's what we ask every guest on the end of this podcast what does success mean to you yeah uh that's a good question you know success is getting up every day and going I'm doing the right thing I'm on the right path right doesn't mean it's easy it doesn't mean I'm not gonna have challenges but I'm on the right path and with the right people and you know it it's a it's a daily thing it's not an end thing. No right yeah that's what success would be it's a daily thing. I woke up this morning and I had coffee went down I have a little home gym which you put together for me. Yeah and uh and I did my wait routine for 45 minutes I had a call with a partner to solve a a problem on a property and I got in the car and you know drove down here to do to do the podcast and I'm like this is great. I'm I'm living my life and I'm enjoying it and I have challenges I have things to look forward to I'm looking for more challenges with good people uh with you guys you know I include you guys in all of that I know we we love that it's fantastic no really that that to me that is success is the life I'm living day to day it's not a bank account yeah it doesn't hurt sure to help of course but day to day that's to me that's my success. Love that yeah for sure love that you know and I you know I have a gift for you coming in next week and it's two books it's two books it's work don't don't worry about it I love it so it's two books and I we can end with this was uh they're very important to me you know in you know and one is Against the Gods it's the story of risk I love it right and a lot of people my generation my age will know the book you know Peter Bernstein wrote it you know whatever 20 some odd 30 some years ago and it's fascinating history of risk okay right and going back to the Greeks and the Romans and throughout history and and and how it's compounded into you know different things where we are today. The second book is is more of a local one that I've read recently and blew me away. Okay. And it's called My Green Valley.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:05

Yeah I just downloaded the audio I I haven't listened to it yet.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:10

Well then I won't get you the I won't get you you want the hardcover?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:12

Sure absolutely I'll I'll probably put it in here.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:16

Because it's a great book to go back to yeah it is and it's uh it's about one of your competitors families Martel.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:23

They've been around for a long time a long time but they got here they've been around for 50 years and I've been around for five years technically with this company.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:31

They got they got in this valley in the 50s you know they were European refugees from World War II. Yeah. And his story is fascinating. Yep and it's it's really about looking at the gaps right it's like meaning and looking at where you want to go he kept focused on my yeah I want to get to my green valley right I'm gonna get my family out of you know the troubles and we're just gonna keep pushing along and keep showing up keep saying yes keep you know keep the focus on on where you want to go. Yep. And he got them here and to me it was such a powerful story that then blows me away when you know and I mean the his green valley is the place we all chose to live. Right? I know it's crazy. So it's like oh wow it's amazing it's like wait we're we're here we're here it's amazing and and it was also my green valley in a bit in a way you know that this is where I wanted to get to this life. Yeah I didn't have to go through that what he went through. I was lucky enough to I wasn't born here but I got here really so mine was easier just a fascinating story about about you know human power human faith and and you know and not in a religious way at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:49

Yeah right but faith in yourself and and to keep your focus I love that I think I think those are just great themes for people to keep an eye on amazing thank you I can't wait I'm just I'm excited for both of those yeah so great cool thank you so much for being here today this was like seeing behind the curtain is is really really cool so thank you for being so vulnerable and oh you you got me in the end I'll tell you that not many people get me like that. So appreciate it so much my pleasure thanks for good luck with everything. You're doing great thank you appreciate it man thanks thank you thanks for tuning in to the Success Architect if today's episode helped you lay a stronger foundation for your business or your life subscribe and share it with someone ready to do the same with theirs. You can follow me Jake Lewendahl on social for daily tips on health, wealth and building success that lasts until next time keep designing and keep leveling